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Thread: KHL Expansion?

  1. #1251
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Orli Znojmo did so. They have registered the club in Austria with a Vienna address (actually that of a friend of mine who works for them) and are now an Austrian club that happens to operate out of Znojmo, Czech Republic.

    Apart from this, the statues and bylaws of the IIHF are the rules of a private organisation as are the rules put forth by national governing bodies at least in most countries. Thus, it is monopolistic civil law entities (tolerated and supported by the states) ruling over other civil law entities outside the realm of the regular law and thus also outside the system of appeals via the regular courts resulting in imho severe violations of European Union principles.
    Bottom lines is, what you call laws are no laws and there's no democratic control whatsoever about the rules national federations and the IIHF on top decide to give themselves and the quoted rule of the IIHF (lex Znojmo) is nothing but the attempt to secure their coercive monopolistic power over the clubs.
    Jokerit Helsinki will be playing in multi-national league KHL from season 2014-15 it seem IIHF or finnish association has not comment it yet...so far

  2. #1252
    IHF Staff Davide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realcloutier View Post
    Jokerit Helsinki will be playing in multi-national league KHL from season 2014-15 it seem IIHF or finnish association has not comment it yet...so far
    Finnish Federation President Jukka-Pekka Vuorinen made a brief comment to INTER-TASS agency: If Jokerit goes, for us it will be a step back. At the moment, only one club can really join the KHL. To participate in the KHL a club has to have solid funding. Jokeirt budget is 8 million euros, several times less than the budgets of the leading Russian teams."

  3. #1253
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    Here's an article, which says that their budget is even less.


    Putin Allies Buy Finnish Hockey Team to Play for Russian Title
    By Kasper Viita - Jun 28, 2013 10:42 AM ET


    Gennady Timchenko and two other billionaire acquaintances of President Vladimir Putin bought a stake in Jokerit ice hockey team, moving the club from Finland’s top league to Russia’s answer to the NHL.

    Timchenko, Arkady Rotenberg and Boris Rotenberg will also buy Hartwall Areena in Helsinki, Jokerit’s home rink and Finland’s largest event venue, with a seating capacity of about 13,500, according to an e-mailed statement from the business partners’ Arena Events Oy venture. The price wasn’t disclosed.

    Finland’s SM-liiga has lost some of its best players to the Kontinental Hockey League in recent years as big-spending Russian owners pay better salaries with generous transfer fees. Jokerit’s wage budget of 3 million euros ($3.9 million), Finland’s largest last season, would place it last in the KHL, tying Metallurg Novokuznetsk in a spending table led by Ak Bars Kazan with 24.7 million euros.

    “Jokerit will regularly be playing against the best teams in Europe,” the partners said in the statement. “The new shareholders believe that interest in ice hockey in Finland will increase further.”

    Timchenko, the billionaire co-founder of energy trader Gunvor Group, is also president of hockey club SKA in St. Petersburg, a 3.5-hour train ride from Helsinki. Boris Rotenberg and his son Roman hold Finnish citizenship, according to the statement, as does Timchenko, the country’s richest man.

    Arkady Rotenberg, a former judo partner of Putin, is the chairman of reigning KHL champion Dynamo Moscow. Putin congratulated him personally after last season’s victory. Roman Rotenberg is vice president of marketing at SKA St. Petersburg.
    Five Championships

    Harry Harkimo, the Finnish real estate developer and sports investor, sold the stakes in Jokerit and the arena after taking charge of the struggling team 23 years ago and managed the club to five domestic championships in 1992 to 2002.

    “Our budget will become much bigger upon entering the KHL,” Harkimo told reporters today in Helsinki. “I don’t want to participate, I want us to win.”

    The club’s former players include Teemu Selanne, the leader in points scored in the Olympics, and five-time Stanley Cup champion Jari Kurri.

    The previous general manager of Jokerit, Jarmo Kekalainen, left his post in February to become the first European general manager in the National Hockey League as the Columbus Blue Jackets hired him for the position.
    Eurovision, Cats

    Hartwall Areena, Harkimo’s brainchild and a venue named after a brewer owned by Heineken NV (HEIA), was built to be ready for the ice hockey world championships in 1997. The venue has hosted concerts from artists including Snoop Dogg, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Prince as well as events such as the Eurovision song contest and Cats musical.

    Publisher Sanoma Oyj (SAA1V) sold its 18 percent stake in Helsinki Halli Oy, Harkimo’s holding company for the team and arena, it said in a statement two weeks ago. Jokerit’s local rival HIFK is currently studying plans to build a new multipurpose arena Helsinki Garden in the coming years.

    A total of 40 Finnish players played in the KHL last season, its fourth most common nationality before Canada, according to quanthockey.com.

    The KHL, which was set up in 2008 with the support of Putin and OAO Gazprom Deputy Chief Executive Officer Alexander Medvedev, includes teams from Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Croatia. Danish TV package provider Viasat A/S this week announced it will start broadcasting KHL matches in Finland.

  4. #1254
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    Another article... http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=5354f82174

    But here's only a bit of it, which I found most interesting.

    The Finnish Ice Hockey Association said in a statement that it would not stay in the way if Jokerit wants to join the KHL.

    “Jokerit’s move from the Finnish SM-liiga to the KHL is a part of international development of hockey. The Finnish association has no reason to be against it,” said the association’s chairman Kalervo Kummola, who is also an IIHF Vice President and a former owner of Jokerit.

  5. #1255
    IHF Member bordshockeypampen's Avatar
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    Will the interest for Jokerit increase in Finland when they play in the KHL?

    I think the Swedish spectators wouldn't be so interested in seing games against Bratislava, Donetsk and Chekhov. They'd much rather see Brynäs, Växjö and AIK.

    But maybe it's different in Finland?

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Press release 28 June 2013

    Hjallis Harkimo sells Hartwall Areena
    JOKERIT JOINS KHL LEAGUE

    Sports businessman and all-round entrepreneur Harry “Hjallis” Harkimo has sold Hartwall Areena to the Russian-Finnish businessman Gennady Timchenko and the Russian-Finnish Rotenberg family. The deal also opens the doors for the ice-hockey team Jokerit to the Russian KHL League, which is currently considered the second toughest after NHL.

    Gennady Timchenko is an energy and logistics businessman who has been active in Finland for a long time, he is also chairman of KHL and SKA of St Petersburg. Brothers Arkady and Boris Rotenberg are operating in Finland in the background of e.g. the Spa and Congress Hotel Långvik. Together they have established a company called Arena Events Oy for the administration of Hartwall Areena. Mr. Harkimo will continue to lead the Jokerit team and has also otherwise committed himself to the operations of Hartwall Areena for the next five years.

    Jokerit will remain the main tenant of the entertainment venue, playing one more season in the Finnish national league. In the autumn of 2014, the team will move over to the KHL League with support from the new business partners.

    FUTURE SECURED

    “With this transaction I wanted to strengthen the ownership of Hartwall Areena and secure the future of the 16-year-old multipurpose arena,” Harkimo summarizes the background of his momentous decisions.

    “We have a splendid history in ice hockey with the hosting of four World Championship tournaments and NHL League opening round games, not to mention the concerts of international top artists and other world-class events. With these arrangements I want to make sure that the future of Hartwall Areena will stay at the same level.”

    TO A HIGHER LEVEL

    “Next season will be by 23rd leading Jokerit in SM-liiga, the Finnish championship league. All these years I have tried to make our operation more international. I have had an active role in developing the European Hockey League, but despite all the efforts made, it has not taken off.”

    “Now that Jokerit has gained a place in the KHL League mainly played in Russia for the season 2014‒2015, we have a fantastic opportunity to develop the team to an even higher level. I believe that Finnish ice hockey as a whole will benefit from this change,” Harkimo emphasizes.

    With Jokerit, Finland will be the ninth country in the KHL League. At the moment, the league consists of 20 Russian clubs, and teams from Kazakhstan, Latvia, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Ukraine and Belarus. A new team from Croatia will join in the coming season.
    http://www.jokerit.com/uutiset/?nid=2428

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  7. #1257
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    It is a done deal, finnish federation will have "no problem". Timchenko and co are owners of finnish national arena. Plus other reasons... that is a big pressure for finnish fed, no chance to say NO.
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    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    What? SM-liga, one of the top league in Europe, has lost one of its jewel and there is no
    reaction. First time KHL buys a club out of the former communist sphere of influence.

    Next to fall to KHL imperialism and their dubious money: the american Anschutz group owned German Eisbären(ex DDR Dynamo
    Berlin) They could change their name again more suitable?

    Would have agreed to a new franchise in Finland for KHL but not to a tradition club
    leaving the league. That can ONLY BE GOOD FOR KHL.

    I consider this a sad day for Euro Hockey and specially for Suomi. So does I am shure the big majority of their fans.

  9. #1259
    IHF Member Garethw87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibizajp View Post

    Would have agreed to a new franchise in Finland for KHL but not to a tradition club
    leaving the league. That can ONLY BE GOOD FOR KHL.
    While I agree it is a very odd situation, there is always the complaining of 'Team in X city/country won't work because there is no 'tradition'' Well now we have a hell of a tradition joining the KHL. In a way I think its excellent news, but also not. Yeah Finland is one of the top leagues but that doesn't mean a team from say the UK should be able to be bought just because we are in the pit of Euro Hockey :D - Maybe Jokerit will operate two squads? A junior/minor league squad in the SM-LIIGA isn't something any other team can have!
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    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordshockeypampen View Post
    Will the interest for Jokerit increase in Finland when they play in the KHL?
    I think that this is the big question that many clubs will be looking at. If Jokerit can keep or increase the interest, other clubs in Sweden and Finland will stand in line to join KHL. If they don't and the KHL adventure is less than successful, KHL interest is also all but eliminated for a foreseeable future.
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  11. #1261
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    I think that this is the big question that many clubs will be looking at. If Jokerit can keep or increase the interest, other clubs in Sweden and Finland will stand in line to join KHL. If they don't and the KHL adventure is less than successful, KHL interest is also all but eliminated for a foreseeable future.
    The same Q was a year ago in Slovakia/Czech rep. After a year I can say - Lev and Slovan are succesfull projects. Yes, Slovan/Lev are not Jokerit nor Finland but I dont believe Finland is soooooo unique. Fans the same everywhere (dont counting those who hate Russia or other country because it is Russia, these fans will never accept KHL in their hometown)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibizajp View Post
    Would have agreed to a new franchise in Finland for KHL but not to a tradition club
    leaving the league. That can ONLY BE GOOD FOR KHL.
    Nonsense, the KHL has absorbed very many Finnish players, it has been a vaccume sucking them in. Hence if a team did not join next season, it is very possible that there would be even fewer Finns left playing in Finland. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but hasn't the KHL already picked up many of the best Finns? The number of Finnish players has anyways increased drastically in the KHL since the KHL started.

  13. #1263
    IHF Member itry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    Nonsense, the KHL has absorbed very many Finnish players, it has been a vaccume sucking them in. Hence if a team did not join next season, it is very possible that there would be even fewer Finns left playing in Finland. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but hasn't the KHL already picked up many of the best Finns? The number of Finnish players has anyways increased drastically in the KHL since the KHL started.
    Yes. Every year we can see quite a lot of best Finnish players heading to play in KHL. And that doesn't only concern the Finns as KHL is sucking up their best imports as well not to mention coaches and personal. Last year there were 34 Finnish players in KHL and they were top notch when they played in SM-liiga. If anything, this is the chance to bring at least some of them back cuz when the import quotas are gone after the Olympics there might be even more Finnish players deciding to cross the border.
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    Quote Originally Posted by itry View Post
    Yes. Every year we can see quite a lot of best Finnish players heading to play in KHL. And that doesn't only concern the Finns as KHL is sucking up their best imports as well not to mention coaches and personal. Last year there were 34 Finnish players in KHL and they were top notch when they played in SM-liiga. If anything, this is the chance to bring at least some of them back cuz when the import quotas are gone after the Olympics there might be even more Finnish players deciding to cross the border.
    I think Finnish national team would gain IF the top notch players 30-50 players who now playing outside Finland creates the base of Jokerit team as Dynamo Riga and Minsk has. You got the base of players playing in same team year around. Interesting to see if they choose a finnish coach too when they start playing 2014-15 season.

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    The only question is what is better for hockey in particular country? One or two KHL teams with larger budgets for approximatelly 30 domestic players at the expense of reducing the quality and importance of the domestic competitition or accepting the loss of these same 30 players to KHL or elsewhere while keeping the existing level of professional hockey in the country.

    In short, what is more important for, say Slovakian hockey, one Slovan in KHL or interesting and good enough Slovakian Extraliga?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    The only question is what is better for hockey in particular country? One or two KHL teams with larger budgets for approximatelly 30 domestic players at the expense of reducing the quality and importance of the domestic competitition or accepting the loss of these same 30 players to KHL or elsewhere while keeping the existing level of professional hockey in the country.

    In short, what is more important for, say Slovakian hockey, one Slovan in KHL or interesting and good enough Slovakian Extraliga?
    Much more important, what is the definition of "hockey in particular country" and who decides?
    Last edited by RexKramer; 30-06-2013 at 22:43.

  17. #1267
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    There can be an intresting strategy of luring euro clubs to KHL in future.

    Rotenberg said: "We are going to buy arenas all over the Europe, the same "mechanism" as in Hartwall/Jokerit case" ... "We aquired Hartwall/Jokerit to join KHL"


    Any idea of (big) arenas/clubs being in financial troubles? I think Germany is no.1 in the playbook, then Finland and maybe others (Switzerland or Sweden)

    I heard about Berlin/Hamburg for sale?
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    @ Drax , I think that there is also an important thing to note... that Finland is not Croatia. In Finland hockey is much more developed, so they will continue to have a competitive league in the future. In some other countries this is not the case, so one team leaving may have a very detrimental impact. But anyways, I think this should not be of concern for Finland, considering that the exact same could concern could be made if the team did not join the KHL - "oh noes, the quality of our league is going down because the vacume cleander (KHL) has sucked up our tallent/people, our league hence is no longer competitive..."... :S

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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    There can be an intresting strategy of luring euro clubs to KHL in future.
    I can only picture big or capital cities getting the teams. Like Milan or Berlin. Perhaps Vienna. But, one step at a time... I think that there won't be more than one team joining when the Finnish team joins... and if it proves to be successful, then perhaps more would join elsewhere?

  20. #1270
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    I agree with you

    Jokerit moving to KHL is a big message for euro clubs which would like to play in international league like Jokerit wanted for decade because:

    1) Jokerit said - future of euro hockey is in KHL, euro projects will fail
    2) Russians said - if your club does not have money, we will help you

    Now we have to find out

    1) what euro clubs/arenas are for sale,
    2) what clubs are pro-euro league (ok, can be for wester euro league not russian one, Jokerit was against KHL as well),
    3) what is KHL´s strategy (what countries, IMO Sweden is not an option now, Germany has priority)
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    1) what euro clubs/arenas are for sale,
    I don't think this is necessarily good. Rather than just look for what arenas are for sale one should aim for the biggest/best arenas. And big population centers are probably necessary conditions too, as there is some serious potential to make money there.

    I bet that Medvescak is in just as an Poprad scenario, to open the door for a team from the Ebel league. But, I dunno. I'm also surprised that Lev has not moved to Warsaw or somewhere yet.

  22. #1272
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    I bet that Medvescak is in just as an Poprad scenario, to open the door for a team from the Ebel league. But, I dunno. I'm also surprised that Lev has not moved to Warsaw or somewhere yet.
    Why move Lev? They finished 7th in the Conference and their attendances aren't the worst either?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garethw87 View Post
    Why move Lev? They finished 7th in the Conference and their attendances aren't the worst either?
    It is better to have one of the older teams in Prague, rather than some new team that poped up out of nowhere. ;) Just for attendance and popularity there I think it's better.

  24. #1274
    IHF Member itry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    It is better to have one of the older teams in Prague, rather than some new team that poped up out of nowhere. ;) Just for attendance and popularity there I think it's better.
    Better for who? For KHL? Do you think people in Russia care if it's Lev or Sparta or whatever the name? As far as KHL is concerned I think attendance would be the same as it is still 'that Czech club', and for Czech league, well... why should KHL care to be honest.
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    IHF Member HATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itry View Post
    Better for who? For KHL? Do you think people in Russia care if it's Lev or Sparta or whatever the name? As far as KHL is concerned I think attendance would be the same as it is still 'that Czech club', and for Czech league, well... why should KHL care to be honest.
    But, but, but Woppa cares :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by itry View Post
    why should KHL care to be honest.
    Well for russian teams it does not matter so much. But come on, what is better for the czechs?

  27. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    Well for russian teams it does not matter so much. But come on, what is better for the czechs?
    The attendance from Czech side seems to be just fine so it seems it is working out for them quite alright.
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    IHF Member fikret's Avatar
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    Deleted due to forum rule violations.
    Last edited by Marc Brunengraber; 03-07-2013 at 04:58. Reason: See above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    It is better to have one of the older teams in Prague, rather than some new team that poped up out of nowhere. ;)
    I understand your point on this ,and that's how I like to see things happen. Like Jokerit are joining so it will be interesting to see them in the bigger league ect ect. As itry says though the league is still Russian so they probably don't care as long as their team is doing well in their league
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  30. #1280
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, my friend in Prague absolutely loves Lev Praha and wholeheartedly supports them
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  31. #1281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    For what it's worth, my friend in Prague absolutely loves Lev Praha and wholeheartedly supports them
    Likewise i've had guests stay at the hotel I work telling me how much they love Lev Praha!
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    Quote Originally Posted by itry View Post
    The attendance from Czech side seems to be just fine so it seems it is working out for them quite alright.
    I think that things could be better over there. We need to ask what is ideal. I mean yeah, sure, something is okay at the moment, but why not having everything be better? I am not over there, but I suspect that Lev is looked at as a new thing, as something that many people do not have faith in. It is hence no surprise that in the lockout this past season the bulk of the czech players went to the czech league, not the KHL.

    Lets ask ourselves would a KHL team have worked in Brastislava, or how would it work in Helsinki or Zagreb if it were called something like oh I dunno, "Lov"... well, yeah, it might be just fine, but I bet you that having the local team there is a much better option. Having a Lov instead of Slovan in the KHL in bratislava would have been worse, I think. Now people may interpret this as if I am being a freak, but I think that this is plausible.
    Last edited by Starkovs; 03-07-2013 at 01:48.

  33. #1283
    IHF Member fikret's Avatar
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    KHL league I follow for a long time and I know that the only interest that the Russians have are: the money and the market. You woppa talking here such nonsense that it is unbelievable. Maybe you've got some plans for the KHL and Medvescak but believe me, nobody is interested in it.
    Last edited by Starkovs; 03-07-2013 at 01:49.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fikret View Post
    I know that the only interest that the Russians have are: the money and the market. You woppa talking here such nonsense that it is unbelievable.
    It is not nonsense. Established teams that have a big following/fan base are in a much better position than a team that comes out of nowhere. I mean come on, can you even imagine how strange it would be to have a team in Bratislava that is not Slovan? Sure maybe it might work, but the current situation there is a much better thing than having a team pop up out of nowhere.
    Last edited by Starkovs; 03-07-2013 at 01:50.

  35. #1285
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Im warning everybody right now to stay on topic, I feel I have been very nice and lenient towards some of you but your (and you know who you are) really starting to push it and Im getting tired of it.

    This is my final warning, knock it off.

  36. #1286
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    I agree with Starkovs.

    Meanwhile, most of you are having a very good conversation and/or debate.

    Carry on. Those who try to ruin it for others will be gone.

  37. #1287
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    Here's how I see it: it makes pretty good sense to have a new club in a city like Prague, for two reasons:

    1. Sparta
    2. Slavia.

    Let's face it, if you bring one of the two into KHL, you're only going to get half of the city's hockey fans. Sparta fans aren't going to support Slavia, whether it's Extraliga, KHL or NHL. But bring in a new club, Lev, and now you have a team that though fans have no historical affiliation, they also have no historical hatred. Meaning that you have a chance to bring in fans from BOTH traditional clubs (and that fans can cheer for the KHL club, and still keep their traditional affiliations in Extraliga)...
    At the end of the day, it makes pretty good sense.

    Looking at the Jokerit situation, we have to ask ourselves the question as to whether this will apply here too. Will IFK Helsinki fans turn and cheer for Jokerit (their cross-town rivals), now that Jokerit has moved leagues?

  38. #1288
    IHF Member itry's Avatar
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    I agree with Steigs on this one, but I don't think we should look at it only from one cities perspective but rather the whole countries. If you want to make a club that whole country supports it has to come as a new club, so that you would not have any "baggage" from local championships. In that matter a person can support Sparta, Slavia or Olemouc AND be able to support LEV as well. To be honest I don't really see the point in the argument about the history of the clubs. Sure it's a nice perk and might make the marketing part easier but National championships is exactly that - national. Since we don't have any real cross continent club level competitions that a casual fan could relate to, there are only these crazy people on forums that actually know and care about teams from other countries. If you want to participate in a cross country league, such things won't matter to those people that are not hardcore hockey fans outside of the said country. And locally... well, in 5 years it won't make much difference.
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  39. #1289
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Many Finns, who are fans of local team in SM-Liiga, have said that they will support/watch Jokerit in KHL. On the other hand, they would not support Jokerit in SM. The same in Slovakia, Slovan´s haters from extraleague times became Slovan supporters in KHL, attending games, watching in tv. Not off of course
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  40. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    I think that things could be better over there. We need to ask what is ideal. I mean yeah, sure, something is okay at the moment, but why not having everything be better? I am not over there, but I suspect that Lev is looked at as a new thing, as something that many people do not have faith in. It is hence no surprise that in the lockout this past season the bulk of the czech players went to the czech league, not the KHL.

    Lets ask ourselves would a KHL team have worked in Brastislava, or how would it work in Helsinki or Zagreb if it were called something like oh I dunno, "Lov"... well, yeah, it might be just fine, but I bet you that having the local team there is a much better option. Having a Lov instead of Slovan in the KHL in bratislava would have been worse, I think. Now people may interpret this as if I am being a freak, but I think that this is plausible.
    Yes, i agree with you.
    It is just people dont understand you what you are saying. I believe in your view of this problem.

  41. #1291
    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    Many Finns, who are fans of local team in SM-Liiga, have said that they will support/watch Jokerit in KHL. On the other hand, they would not support Jokerit in SM. The same in Slovakia, Slovan´s haters from extraleague times became Slovan supporters in KHL, attending games, watching in tv. Not off of course

    Can you bring a link to polls?
    JOKERIT did not want to join KHL it was BOUGHT UP in a typical capitalistic transaction
    between busnessmen.
    There was no drive from finish clubs/players/hockey fans/media/autorithy to belong to
    KHL. Its a accomplished fact take it or...Now everybody is wait and see.

    If this is a buy-out strategy example. What is the real function of TROJANS like LEV or
    maybe HELVETICS?

  42. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Here's how I see it: it makes pretty good sense to have a new club in a city like Prague, for two reasons:

    1. Sparta
    2. Slavia.

    Let's face it, if you bring one of the two into KHL, you're only going to get half of the city's hockey fans. Sparta fans aren't going to support Slavia, whether it's Extraliga, KHL or NHL. But bring in a new club, Lev, and now you have a team that though fans have no historical affiliation, they also have no historical hatred. Meaning that you have a chance to bring in fans from BOTH traditional clubs (and that fans can cheer for the KHL club, and still keep their traditional affiliations in Extraliga)...
    At the end of the day, it makes pretty good sense.

    Looking at the Jokerit situation, we have to ask ourselves the question as to whether this will apply here too. Will IFK Helsinki fans turn and cheer for Jokerit (their cross-town rivals), now that Jokerit has moved leagues?
    Going off of the first half of that, my previously mentioned Czech friend is a fan of Lev Praha as well as Slavia Praha. She and her friends uniformly root for the former and they're divided between Sparta/Slavia. So, from this example you're correct on the power of a new team to break away from existing fandoms.
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  43. #1293
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    why must the Russians copy everything from the NHL,, why don't they do something different, Merge the VHL together with khl, lets have some 70 teams or everybody who wants to join can join, divided in a western and eastern, just imagine the playoffs with 64 team soo fucking cool,

  44. #1294
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    And a season running from August of this year to July of next year, with that much playoff time?
    Also, would you really be interested in seeing SKA St Petersburg go to the 3100-seat Sports Palace Olimpijskij in Ryazan and lay a 15-0 beatdown on the local team?
    The VHL is a step below KHL... far enough below that merging the two would be insanity. And not simply because there would be far too many teams involved.

  45. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    And a season running from August of this year to July of next year, with that much playoff time?
    Also, would you really be interested in seeing SKA St Petersburg go to the 3100-seat Sports Palace Olimpijskij in Ryazan and lay a 15-0 beatdown on the local team?
    The VHL is a step below KHL... far enough below that merging the two would be insanity. And not simply because there would be far too many teams involved.
    Is there any official statement (future expansion) of how many teams they want to involved into KHL 28-32 or more?
    I agree it´s insanity if merge VHL teams or further expansion instead of settle down for few years to make the league stabilized. Talk about watering down of player pool and level of the game. As I understood the clubs don´t make the main revenuse of attendance figures. So interesting thing would be the day the big sponsors redraws their money from would this whole KHL fall apart as house of cards.

  46. #1296
    IHF Member itry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realcloutier View Post
    Is there any official statement (future expansion) of how many teams they want to involved into KHL 28-32 or more?
    I agree it´s insanity if merge VHL teams or further expansion instead of settle down for few years to make the league stabilized. Talk about watering down of player pool and level of the game. As I understood the clubs don´t make the main revenuse of attendance figures. So interesting thing would be the day the big sponsors redraws their money from would this whole KHL fall apart as house of cards.
    It's been quite clearly stated by Medvedev that the goal is 32 teams in the league. The planis to have 2 more from Russia and 2 from Europe.
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  47. #1297
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itry View Post
    It's been quite clearly stated by Medvedev that the goal is 32 teams in the league. The planis to have 2 more from Russia and 2 from Europe.
    Yes, it was said by Medvedev a few days before Jokerit´s announcement. After that, Medvedev said that Jokerit is 29th club, league is waiting Lada and maybe 2 spots are for euro clubs from hockey countries. It is not clear still, KHL has a plan but who knows? It is obvious that Tyumen, Lada and Sochi will have a team, all depends on new arena (in Tyumen), money (Lada) and will (Sochi - there is a will for sure). Who knows? Maybe some russian clubs like Vityaz will go to VHL to be replaced by Tyumen, Lada and Sochi? I guess we will see some german club soon, I bet on Berlin/Hamburg/Koln/Munchen. At the same time Malmo Redhawks of Sweden is interesting as well. The club is playing Allsvenskan, little chance to make SHL, club wanted to play euro league (no chance in new version of ET or whatever it is), arena is good, club has financial problems. Why not?
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  48. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    Yes, it was said by Medvedev a few days before Jokerit´s announcement. After that, Medvedev said that Jokerit is 29th club, league is waiting Lada and maybe 2 spots are for euro clubs from hockey countries. It is not clear still, KHL has a plan but who knows? It is obvious that Tyumen, Lada and Sochi will have a team, all depends on new arena (in Tyumen), money (Lada) and will (Sochi - there is a will for sure). Who knows? Maybe some russian clubs like Vityaz will go to VHL to be replaced by Tyumen, Lada and Sochi? I guess we will see some german club soon, I bet on Berlin/Hamburg/Koln/Munchen. At the same time Malmo Redhawks of Sweden is interesting as well. The club is playing Allsvenskan, little chance to make SHL, club wanted to play euro league (no chance in new version of ET or whatever it is), arena is good, club has financial problems. Why not?
    I think that Krasnoyarsk should get a team. Afterall, they have about a million people in their city.


    Also, I thnk that Medvescak is not a long term member of the league. I think they will be leaving sooner or later. I might be wrong, but my guess is that they won't be in the league more than three years.

  49. #1299
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    I think the KHL will have to make an important decision soon regarding becoming truly a European league. Either they reduce the number of Russian teams, or expand to maybe 40 teams with a stricter separation between the division (similar to the MHL next year: 40 teams, only or mostly intra-division play, 2x16 teams in play-off, Grand Final between East and West).

    In the long run I don't see it as an option to just have the odd team from various European countries, but 24 Russian teams. It is not attractive enough for European teams to play most of their games against little-known Russian teams.

    (And with "European" I mean "west of former Soviet Union", I know that this is not correct, but simpler to formulate).

  50. #1300
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woppa View Post
    I think that Krasnoyarsk should get a team. Afterall, they have about a million people in their city.


    Also, I thnk that Medvescak is not a long term member of the league. I think they will be leaving sooner or later. I might be wrong, but my guess is that they won't be in the league more than three years.
    Yes, Krasnoyarsk is a city which can get KHL team, but I dont see it happens in foreseeable future

    I dont agree with Medvescak. The club is great location, russian money will be there. It is not Poprad. Poprad was there to open doors to Slovakia/Czech rep. Is there Medvescak to open doors to Salzburg/Germany? I dont think so. Jokerit is there for this "role", but I dont consider Jokerit as one-two year member of KHL.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    I think the KHL will have to make an important decision soon regarding becoming truly a European league. Either they reduce the number of Russian teams, or expand to maybe 40 teams with a stricter separation between the division (similar to the MHL next year: 40 teams, only or mostly intra-division play, 2x16 teams in play-off, Grand Final between East and West).

    In the long run I don't see it as an option to just have the odd team from various European countries, but 24 Russian teams. It is not attractive enough for European teams to play most of their games against little-known Russian teams.

    (And with "European" I mean "west of former Soviet Union", I know that this is not correct, but simpler to formulate).
    IMO KHL had a plan to have maximum of 32 clubs. Yes, some russian clubs will go out. I can imagine KHL with 18 or 16 clubs from Russia, the rest from Europe/Asia. If this happen, it will be not overnight. It will take years.

    It is not good to have one team from euro country, especially big hockey markets like Finland or Sweden, Germany (not big hockey market, but big market in general) or even Switzerland. On the other hand, KHL can not aquire 2-3 clubs from one country in one offseason. Not good for KHL, not good for domestic league (in Finland f.e.). It must be a process. On the other hand, I dont think we will see 4-5 clubs from Finland or Sweden - there is not market for them.

    Slovan found out that joining czech league is not going to happen anytime soon, Slovan joined KHL instead. Jokerit found out that Scandinavian/Euro league is not going to happen, ET/IIHF competition is not going to be sucessfull, so Jokerit opted to KHL. What have these clubs in common?

    1) both wanted to play interantional/euro league, local/domestic league was not good for them anymore (sporting/economic point of view)

    2) both found out that euro/regional league is not going to happen

    How many clubs with the same attitude are in DEL, SHL (Allsvenskan), SM-Liiga, NLA?

    SHL and Allsvenskan can not agree on term of promotion/relegation. Big clubs like Djurgaarden, Malmo plays Allsvenskan, maybe there are other big clubs. They can play international hockey, play SHL. What if they dont make it to SHL for 2-4 years? If there is Euro/IIHF/ET competition (including 4 spots for russian and 4 for non-russian KHL clubs as Kummola said) and these Allsvenskan club are not invited? Would they look at KHL? Would not be route from KHL to Euro/IIHF/ET competition much easier for them? You know, only 7 (+ Jokerit) non-russian clubs in KHL. You can qualify to Euro league every year, dont have to fear about relegation every year... If I were Malmo, I would pick such route. Of course, if Euro/IIHF/ET competition works as I wrote (still rumour).

    Medvedev said a few days back, "We will go 2 routes - we will support/join euro league and expand to west, to have Jokerit as 29th club and 2 more euro clubs on the way"
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