Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 201 to 250 of 277

Thread: Discussion tangent: On naturalized players in NTs

  1. #201
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    FIBA's system, while commendable due to small number of naturalised players allowed, is also ridiculous given that national federation can pick any player, talk its government into giving the citizenship and voila! an American player who could not find Croatia on the map of Europe suddenly becomes Croatian in order to play on World Championship. You can even read prominent journalists arguing how this or that type of American must be brought into the "national team" because the team lacks such profile on the roster. It is going to be a death knell onto the very idea of international competition.
    Quite true, though my intent was just to suggest that the IIHF keep (or lengthen the eligibility requirement) its current rule but just allow NGBs to include a limited number of naturalised players instead of as many as they wish/have.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  2. #202
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Trim View Post
    Quite true, though my intent was just to suggest that the IIHF keep (or lengthen the eligibility requirement) its current rule but just allow NGBs to include a limited number of naturalised players instead of as many as they wish/have.
    Anyway, IIHF thinks everything is okay with the rule, they did not approve either the British or the Hungarian proposal. So expect further Ichnacaks and further idiotic jokes in the power rankings when Italy plays in the Elite.

  3. #203
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    EUSSR :(
    Posts
    2,968
    So it seems there actually was a slight change to the double citizenship rule as the age has been reduced from 12 to 10:

    The eligibility rules for players with multiple citizenships have been adjusted. A player wanting to represent a country and hasn’t played for another country before, needs to have played two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days, old: 730 days) in the national competitions of the country he wants to represent after his 10th (old: 12th) birthday. Female players need to have participated on a consistent basis for at least one hockey season and have been member of the new national association for at least 12 consecutive months during that period.
    http://www.iihfworlds2014.com/en/new...ules-approved/
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  4. #204
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by IIHF View Post
    The eligibility rules for players with multiple citizenships have been adjusted. A player wanting to represent a country and hasn’t played for another country before, needs to have played two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days, old: 730 days) in the national competitions of the country he wants to represent after his 10th (old: 12th) birthday.
    How exactly are these different scenarios?

    Quote Originally Posted by IIHF View Post
    Female players need to have participated on a consistent basis for at least one hockey season and have been member of the new national association for at least 12 consecutive months during that period.
    That's just farcical. Not only is it silly to have a different rule for women, but to have only played "consistently" for a year?!? WTF!
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  5. #205
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    So it seems there actually was a slight change to the double citizenship rule as the age has been reduced from 12 to 10:



    http://www.iihfworlds2014.com/en/new...ules-approved/
    Yes, my info is that it was a second round when they approved this and it seems that retrospectively they justified the Nylander-decision... fuck off IIHF

  6. #206
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    Sounds like Hari will now be eligible to play for Hungary? Did he not leave the country between during his 10-12 years?

  7. #207
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Sounds like Hari will now be eligible to play for Hungary? Did he not leave the country between during his 10-12 years?
    No. Hári was 11 when he left. After four yers of icehockey played in Hungary.

    But the Nylander-Atelius decision is now rightful and from now it is even more easier to naturalize senior players if you have a team in an attractive league.

    Actually, almost the only one is Hári who is punished now.

  8. #208
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    What date did he leave kerusz? If he was 11 years and 4 months plus a day, he qualifies under the new rules.

  9. #209
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    What date did he leave kerusz? If he was 11 years and 4 months plus a day, he qualifies under the new rules.
    http://regi.icehockey.hu/magyar/reg_profil.php?mit=1243

    No, impossible.

    But at least Ouzas should be eligible for the croats and many others who spent two seasons in Medvescak. I wonder what will be the IIHF position about it.

  10. #210
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    It's in the rules, they'll have to accept it, I imagine.
    Sucks for Hari.... really sucks :( Maybe he'll find a professional career back home after his junior years? (it's all I got)

  11. #211
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    It's in the rules, they'll have to accept it, I imagine.
    Sucks for Hari.... really sucks :( Maybe he'll find a professional career back home after his junior years? (it's all I got)
    I would rather go to the CAS, but we know that the IIHF won't be happy from that.

    You know, my problem is that these new rules made the naturalization even much more easier if you do it in adulthood and you have a lucrative club team.

  12. #212
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    True. And we know a couple countries will probably take full advantage of it.
    I would have preferred the naturalization time get longer, not shorter... *sigh*

  13. #213
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    3,119
    Croatian fans already celebrate new rules and build another "dream team" destined to win Division IB. It's a bad decision for undeveloped hockey countries but I guess IIHF gave up on them decided to stick with those who have the money.

  14. #214
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    I guess IIHF gave up on them decided to stick with those who have the money.
    Or at least a professional club that does. For all their discussion about grassroots, developing the game internationally, etc, I fail to see how this rule accomplishes that.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  15. #215
    IHF Staff
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Trim View Post
    Or at least a professional club that does. For all their discussion about grassroots, developing the game internationally, etc, I fail to see how this rule accomplishes that.
    But there's also no guarantee whatsoever that tightening the rules for dual nats to become eligible actually boosts the development of the sport from the grassroot level upwards in the countries that are prone to exploit these rules. Growing the sport has to be fueld by long term investment and involving competent people who care to work for in the clubs etc. None of this comes by itself just because it is harder to get dual nats eligible for the national team. Imho that's neither sufficient nor necessary...it just isn't that easy.

  16. #216
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    But there's also no guarantee whatsoever that tightening the rules for dual nats to become eligible actually boosts the development of the sport from the grassroot level upwards in the countries that are prone to exploit these rules. Growing the sport has to be fueld by long term investment and involving competent people who care to work for in the clubs etc. None of this comes by itself just because it is harder to get dual nats eligible for the national team. Imho that's neither sufficient nor necessary...it just isn't that easy.
    but then again, what is the reason behind not letting players play in the country of their original citizenship without any other requirements, if they did not play in an other national team?

    With these new rules the reason that the national team shall represent the hockey in the country in question is even less true. They now require even less commitment towards the new country than before.

  17. #217
    IHF Staff
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    5,144
    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    but then again, what is the reason behind not letting players play in the country of their original citizenship without any other requirements, if they did not play in an other national team?
    I suppose you mean "not letting players play FOR the country of their original..."
    The rationale I see behind this (and I absolutely support it) seems to be that players that have never played in a certain country should not be able to represent it.
    Note: I'd completely remove the age threshold, in developping a hockey player the earliest part is crucial too and so it makes no sense for me to disregard hockey activities prior to age 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    With these new rules the reason that the national team shall represent the hockey in the country in question is even less true. They now require even less commitment towards the new country than before.
    That's not what I am arguing although shortening the period to two consecutive seasons instead of two consecutive years won't have a big effect. I guess that most players qualifying under the new rule would also qualify under the old rule (or just qualify a little later), so this change has imho no substantial effect. Note (to make sure): I'd have no problem if the required period "in the system" had been lengthened to 3 or 4 seasons.

    The point I tried to make is that neither relaxing nor tightening the eligibility rules is necessary or suffcient (or both) to foster grass root resp. long term development of hockey in countries that struggle to grow the sport. Many other things that are at most marginally related to this issue are much more important.

  18. #218
    IHF Prospect
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Grizzly65x
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    What is my understanding is that the Hungarian Federation filed an amendment to the Statutes and Bylaws of the IIHF and probably they are waiting for the outcome of this more peaceful way of solving the problem.

    Still I can totally not understand the IIHF policy. Why is it better to allow people to be naturalized in two years and saying they are the production of the icehockey of the respective country than let a player play for his native country whose citizenship he holds since his birth. I think it shall always be allowed somebody to play for his native country if he never lost his original citizenship and never played for an other country.
    Given that the more peacefuil way of solving the problem seems to have failed do youy believe the Hungarian federation will now go to CAS?

  19. #219
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly65x View Post
    Given that the more peacefuil way of solving the problem seems to have failed do youy believe the Hungarian federation will now go to CAS?
    I honestly don't see how CAS can change this in Harí's favour.

    There is no generic, sport-wide set of rules that define the eligibility rules for international sport. As a result, I don't think that CAS will be interested in a case that says the IIHF definition is unjust. All that they will care about is whether his restriction is consistent with the rules defined by the IIHF.

    Ultimately, I think the IOC have to be held accountable here. They should be coming up with a definition that can be applied to all sports. But, that particular organisation is so protective of it's business, it routinely takes the coward's way out.

    Graham.
    "It's very hard to talk quantum using a language originally designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is."
    ---
    "Night Watch", Terry Pratchett

  20. #220
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Budapest
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    I honestly don't see how CAS can change this in Harí's favour.

    There is no generic, sport-wide set of rules that define the eligibility rules for international sport. As a result, I don't think that CAS will be interested in a case that says the IIHF definition is unjust. All that they will care about is whether his restriction is consistent with the rules defined by the IIHF.

    Ultimately, I think the IOC have to be held accountable here. They should be coming up with a definition that can be applied to all sports. But, that particular organisation is so protective of it's business, it routinely takes the coward's way out.

    Graham.
    Hári was born a Hungarian citizen and played 4 full years in Hungary. At this point I think noone can deny that he was eligible for playing for Hungary. The problem is that nobody can define the point when and by what means he lost this right. Besides unless I'm mistaken the rule that makes him not eligible (which can be crushed on CAS easily) came in force after he was not allowed to play in the WC anyway.
    That is why he has a very strong case in CAS, no wonder why IIHF tries to bully the Hungarian federation into silence.

  21. #221
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by veghist View Post
    Hári was born a Hungarian citizen and played 4 full years in Hungary. At this point I think noone can deny that he was eligible for playing for Hungary. The problem is that nobody can define the point when and by what means he lost this right. Besides unless I'm mistaken the rule that makes him not eligible (which can be crushed on CAS easily) came in force after he was not allowed to play in the WC anyway.
    That is why he has a very strong case in CAS, no wonder why IIHF tries to bully the Hungarian federation into silence.
    Sorry, I rushed my post and wasn't very clear.

    The only question is around the 12-year old rule which was only made explicit in September 2012, about five months after his eligibility was denied. It is clear that, as of Sept 2012, Hári does not mean the criteria to play for Hungary. CAS will not question that position as the IIHF rules are not in violation of any of the basic IOC rules and has previously ruled that federations are allowed to have more restrictive rules than the IOC (in other words, a federation is allowed to prevent an athlete who meets the IOC rules but can't approve a player who doesn't).

    Should the IIHF have said no to Hungary in April 2012? From the outside, we can't say for sure as we don't know the quality of the evidence that was presented by the Hungarian federation. Certainly, the rule in place at the time did not explicitly state 12 years old being the starting age (although, it has to be recognised that there may be other rules in place that effectively created that restriction through other means).

    But, CAS state that:

    In the absence of a time limit set in the statutes or regulations of the federation, association or sports-related body concerned, or in a previous agreement, the time limit for appeal shall be twenty-one days from the receipt of the decision appealed against.
    It seems clear that Hári did not appeal the decision within 21 days. Therefore, his argument to CAS can't be about the initial refusal, it can only be about a rule in place that continues to prevent him from playing. Which comes back to that earlier point. CAS will not rule on whether the IIHF rule is "just", only whether it is valid under the IOC charter (which it appears to be) and whether his restriction is consistent within the ruling (which it appears to be).

    That's why I don't see him having a strong case with CAS. He probably did in May 2012. I don't think he does now.

    Graham.
    "It's very hard to talk quantum using a language originally designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is."
    ---
    "Night Watch", Terry Pratchett

  22. #222
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Budapest,Hungary
    Posts
    64
    If the 21-day rule applies here (which I'm not sure about), the case is definetely not that strong as Hári could only complain about his current eligibility which is as of now complying with the rulebook.

    However, the case could be launched on the basis of other players who were granted eligibility in similar circumstances. E.g. Hári could point out the Stewart case, where a player was granted eligibility because gaining it would have been detrimental to his development. That's the case with Hári as well. I know that the cases are somewhat different (Stewart not having any eligibility at all while Hári being eligible for Sweden), but something along these lines could be constructed (maybe the Bozon case could also be used). As far as I know, the CAS loves precedents and if one positive decision in a similar case is proven it would rule in Hári's favor.

    But the Pfennich case could be done easily before CAS, as the denial of his eligibility clearly violates the current rules and denies him eligibility to play anywhere at all.

  23. #223
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    However, the case could be launched on the basis of other players who were granted eligibility in similar circumstances. E.g. Hári could point out the Stewart case, where a player was granted eligibility because gaining it would have been detrimental to his development. That's the case with Hári as well. I know that the cases are somewhat different (Stewart not having any eligibility at all while Hári being eligible for Sweden)
    Three points:

    First, Hári's case is completely different to Stewart's. The primary issue with Stewart is only that the was not eligible to play for any country. It was regarded as being detrimental to his career to gain eligibility to play in the IHWC for any country. Considering Hári is eligible to play for Sweden, but he wants to play for Hungary, Stewart can not be used as a precedent. Hári can play in the IHWC, Stewart couldn't. That is a world of difference.

    Similar circumstance is not enough. It has to be close to identical. Stewart and Hári are not close to identical. Remember, the key phrase in the IIHF response to the Stewart case was that it was not the IIHF's intention with the dual citizenship ruling to prevent a player from having any country that he can represent.

    Second, the 21 day rule is clear in CAS's rules. Rule 49 at http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/docu...ales20(en).pdf. The IIHF's acceptance of that is in rule 58 at http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_u...and_Bylaws.pdf.

    Third, it's not true to say that CAS loves precedents. CAS prefers the black and white of a rule. If a rule is seen to have been applied incorrectly in the past, they will not regard that as a sign that the rule can be applied incorrectly in this case. Only in the case of a "vague" rule will precedent be used to show the "true" meaning of the rule.

    Hári is clearly only eligible to play for Sweden under the current rules. There is no ambiguity in his case. CAS will not care whether that is morally right or wrong. They will only care that the rule clearly states that Hári is a Swedish national team player.

    For me, it is clear that the initial IIHF ruling was wrong. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Hári has lost his window of opportunity to do anything about that.

    Graham.
    "It's very hard to talk quantum using a language originally designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is."
    ---
    "Night Watch", Terry Pratchett

  24. #224
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Budapest,Hungary
    Posts
    64
    Fair enough, I acknowledged the difference as well and I just speculated that it can somehow be bridged legally. The rule is a little bit ambigous that it allows the IIHF to grant eligibility even if the criteria aren't met, and if the Stewart or the Bozon case could be presented as very similar or almost identical to the Hári case than the CAS would have a precedent that demonstrates that the IIHF is not consistent when granting eligibilites. I don't know if this presentation is legally feasible, it's only speculation on my part.

    Another speculation: the 21-day rule could be circumvented by stating that Hári should be granted eligibility not because he is currently eligible according to the rules, but because he was eligible in May 2012 and therefore should have been allowed to play. Playing back then would make him eligible now (I think if you played for a certain NT then you're eligible to play for it as long as you don't choose to switch to another NT). This is most likely not acceptable legally, I'm just trying to come up with ideas to have a case before CAS. Anyway, it doesn't really matter if the case could stand or not because the Háris are clearly not pushing the issue there, they would like to solve it within the IIHF.

    However, I still think that the Pfennich case should be a no-brainer for CAS. The current rules clearly make him eligible and even if the Dominican Republic were admitted to the IIHF, his case would be identical to the Stewart case (unless the IIHF feels strongly that the Austrian league is the right one for Pfennich to develop).

  25. #225
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    Fair enough, I acknowledged the difference as well and I just speculated that it can somehow be bridged legally. The rule is a little bit ambigous that it allows the IIHF to grant eligibility even if the criteria aren't met, and if the Stewart or the Bozon case could be presented as very similar or almost identical to the Hári case than the CAS would have a precedent that demonstrates that the IIHF is not consistent when granting eligibilites. I don't know if this presentation is legally feasible, it's only speculation on my part.
    The IIHF made it clear in the Stewart ruling that this was only because he wasn't eligible to represent any county and meeting the criteria would clearly be detrimental to his career (i.e. he was demonstrably and realistically chasing an NHL career and neither the UK nor New Zealand would come close to helping him do that). Therefore, any case wanting to use Stewart as a precedent also needs to be in that situation. Hári isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    Another speculation: the 21-day rule could be circumvented by stating that Hári should be granted eligibility not because he is currently eligible according to the rules, but because he was eligible in May 2012 and therefore should have been allowed to play. Playing back then would make him eligible now (I think if you played for a certain NT then you're eligible to play for it as long as you don't choose to switch to another NT). This is most likely not acceptable legally, I'm just trying to come up with ideas to have a case before CAS.
    That's the point of the 21-day rule. He had 21 days from that initial IIHF judgement to appeal it. Because he didn't, he can't appeal the decision that was taken i early 2012. The only grounds that he can appeal on now are that the current rules should not be stopping him compete for Hungary.

    The only way that Hári can appeal to CAS that he should have been allowed to play in 2012 is if he can show that he is currently going through the full appeal process at the IIHF. That way, he has 21 days to appeal to CAS on the result of his IIHF appeal. Given the protracted nature of this, I think he'd struggle to argue that he has followed the full IIHF appeals procedure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    However, I still think that the Pfennich case should be a no-brainer for CAS. The current rules clearly make him eligible and even if the Dominican Republic were admitted to the IIHF, his case would be identical to the Stewart case (unless the IIHF feels strongly that the Austrian league is the right one for Pfennich to develop).
    I don't quite agree that Pfennich is a no-brainer as I have not yet seen any indication as to whether his Austrian passport came at birth or whether it was something he applied for.

    If he applied for it, then clause 1.6 of rule 406 applies and it makes no reference to the the citizenships needing to be of member nations. Under the rules, he would not be eligible to play for Austria until he played two years there. Therefore, he would need to be able to argue that his case is similar to Stewart's and that going to Austria would be detrimental to his career. Considering he's not playing a particularly high level in Switzerland, that's clearly not as easy an argument to make as it was for Liam Stewart.

    If he had that citizenship from birth, then clause 1.7 of rule 406 implies that his Dominican Republic citizenship is irrelevant in the argument since it is not a member nation. Although clause 1.7 talks about what happens when your citizenships are for countries that are members, it could be reasonably argued that, since the clause doesn't apply to Pfennich, he doesn't need to play two years in Austria to qualify.

    But, there is the bigger issue for Pfennich which I have seen hinted at in some press but never fully confirmed. It is reported that he plays on a Swiss license. One of the sub-clauses in both clauses 1.6 and 1.7 is that the player must have an international transfer approved two years before the application to compete for the country.

    My understanding is that Pfennich needs to compete on a Swiss license so that he doesn't count as an import and, therefore, that isn't something that is up for negotiation for him. Since he doesn't have an Austrian license, I think that is what is ultimately stopping his participation for Austria. The problem is that, if neither clause 1.6 or clause 1.7 apply to him, then there isn't really a catch all requirement that says he does need to be on an Austrian license.

    So, if clause 1.6 applies to Pfennich, then I don't think he has any case. He simply doesn't qualify for Austria whilst he holds a Swiss license. But, if clause 1.7 applies to him, then there is an argument. Pfennich would argue that there is nothing in the rules that says, in his situation, he needs to hold an Austrian license. The IIHF will argue that it is understood from the language in clause 1.1 that "a member national association" needs to be the member national association for the country he wishes to represent.

    Now, that's not what the rule actually says, but it's not that big a stretch to argue that it should be clear that it is. That's why I don't think Pfennich is a no-brainer as long as he has a Swiss license.

    Graham.
    "It's very hard to talk quantum using a language originally designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is."
    ---
    "Night Watch", Terry Pratchett

  26. #226
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Anyway, it's nice to see how happy IIHF is that in a year a bunch of NHLers can play in Team Croatia. I understand, landing in Croatia at the age of twenty-something and playing there two seasons represents the croatian hockey while those players (like Hári) who are on the other hand, victims of the supidity of IIHF leaders, naturally can not represent the hockey of their country.


    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...iew/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=9046&cHash=f110353592bf881721537857258b091d

  27. #227
    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    677
    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    Anyway, it's nice to see how happy IIHF is that in a year a bunch of NHLers can play in Team Croatia. I understand, landing in Croatia at the age of twenty-something and playing there two seasons represents the croatian hockey while those players (like Hári) who are on the other hand, victims of the supidity of IIHF leaders, naturally can not represent the hockey of their country.


    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...iew/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=9046&cHash=f110353592bf881721537857258b091d
    Link doesn't work

    EDIT : found it...it is dekanich's interview.

  28. #228
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    Anyway, it's nice to see how happy IIHF is that in a year a bunch of NHLers can play in Team Croatia. I understand, landing in Croatia at the age of twenty-something and playing there two seasons represents the croatian hockey while those players (like Hári) who are on the other hand, victims of the supidity of IIHF leaders, naturally can not represent the hockey of their country.


    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...iew/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=9046&cHash=f110353592bf881721537857258b091d
    The solution: give Hungarian citizenship to any and every import that plays for AV19, then build the NT that way.... (please, PLEASE don't actually do that!)

  29. #229
    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    The solution: give Hungarian citizenship to any and every import that plays for AV19, then build the NT that way.... (please, PLEASE don't actually do that!)
    I don't like the way (and I think it's a wrong way) how Croatian Hockey Federation using players but everything they do is under the law, by the law of IIHF rules. So, they copy-paste the way of other countries,.. they have seen that this is legitimate, and why not - Croatians to Elitians :)

    One thing must can't be allowed: it is the case when you have the 100% clear situation where Hungarian young player is not allowed to play while 5-10-15 Italian, Israel and other players are allowed. Maybe IIHF don't understand the defference between black and white, maybe they don't see the difference between men and women, etc,.. who knows?

    Maybe some lessons wasn't at the schools in those period of IIHF members lives?? Maybe money wasn't so popular thing in the past??????
    Serbian hockey
    Senior 2A - U20 2B - U18 2B

  30. #230
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by BASSA View Post
    maybe they don't see the difference between men and women,
    I think they do because its even easier for dual-national women to play for their second country than for men!
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  31. #231
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    Bassa, I agree 100% with what you said there. It's by-the-rules, the problem is that the rules are blocking the wrong players from playing for their country.

  32. #232
    IHF Member Kiraly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada
    Posts
    454
    Pleasantly surprised to read this this morning:

    Norbert Hari to Play for Debrecen

    Hari plans to play in Hungary at least as long as is necessary to comply with the IIHF requirements.

    Might see action as early as tomorrow against Ujpest.

  33. #233
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiraly View Post
    Pleasantly surprised to read this this morning:

    Norbert Hari to Play for Debrecen

    Hari plans to play in Hungary at least as long as is necessary to comply with the IIHF requirements.

    Might see action as early as tomorrow against Ujpest.
    That is dedication to his cause, though we all know this should be an unnecessary step.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  34. #234
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    Agree with Trim here.
    What's the term of his contract, is he being paid as a full-pro, semi-pro or is this an amateur contract for him?
    Also, I wonder how MOL compares with the Swedish J20 SuperElit, where he would otherwise be playing.

  35. #235
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    Not sure of how those two leagues match up ( is anyone? ;) ), but I don't think he will be hurt development-wise playing in MOL.....it has improved quite a bit in the past couple of years and is good quality minor pro level now.

    Swedish J20 SuperElit teams do play in the World Junior Club Cup against the likes of Major Junior, USHL and MHL clubs, and are competitive, so it may still be a higher level of play than MOL's current standard. Then again, recall that CIS McGill played against MOL teams several years back and only won one and lost one, I believe. McGill is one of the strongest CIS teams (above usual CIS standard and on par with the aforementioned junior loop teams and NCAA D.I teams).

    Again, I think he won't be hurt playing in MOL. It's an excellent league nowadays.

  36. #236
    IHF Member Kiraly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiraly View Post
    Might see action as early as tomorrow against Ujpest.
    Didn't play against Ujpest, but he did debut today against Csikszereda assisting on the last goal in a lop-sided DHK win.

  37. #237
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Currently Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,329
    The IIHF just posted an article on their site regarding Italy and their new mentality. The new coach, Ivano Zanatta, and the new federation adviser Lou Vairo have stated that they want a national team of pure Italians as possible. They both recognized that using Canadian-Italians and American-Italians isn't conducive in the long run, so kudos to them.
    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...b04a2f932eec7f
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

  38. #238
    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    677
    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    The IIHF just posted an article on their site regarding Italy and their new mentality. The new coach, Ivano Zanatta, and the new federation adviser Lou Vairo have stated that they want a national team of pure Italians as possible. They both recognized that using Canadian-Italians and American-Italians isn't conducive in the long run, so kudos to them.
    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...b04a2f932eec7f
    Kudos to them if they are going to stick with it, but I am afraid Italy could get relegated to D1B soon....

  39. #239
    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    677
    And does it means Serie A will cut number of foreginers in order to give home-grown players more ice time ?

  40. #240
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Jūrmala, Latvia
    Posts
    21,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    And does it means Serie A will cut number of foreginers in order to give home-grown players more ice time ?
    Yeah, they did it for this season when they introduced the INL clubs into the league, its down to 4 players from 9. However, those players who hold Italian citizenship and have already played two seasons in Italy are not considered foreign.

  41. #241
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Currently Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkovs View Post
    Yeah, they did it for this season when they introduced the INL clubs into the league, its down to 4 players from 9. However, those players who hold Italian citizenship and have already played two seasons in Italy are not considered foreign.
    It could be a loophole to potentially be abused, but it sounds like the Italian federation wants to see homegrown players over mercenary players, which gives us hope. However, that may come at the expense of relegations as Snapshot said. All in all, I'll believe it when I see it.
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

  42. #242
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Jūrmala, Latvia
    Posts
    21,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    It could be a loophole to potentially be abused, but it sounds like the Italian federation wants to see homegrown players over mercenary players, which gives us hope. However, that may come at the expense of relegations as Snapshot said. All in all, I'll believe it when I see it.
    As I understand the rule, it only applies to those entering this season. I agree with you both on the second part, they tried it during the EIHC with no success, however despite the way the FISG changed the rules, if I remember it correctly, it was CONI was pushed them. It was them who threatened cutting funding if something didnt change.

  43. #243
    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,079

    Korea Mike Testwuide - Korea

    IIHF:

    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...064e5634d29d11

    Mike Testwuide, may represent Korea in the 2015 IIHF Ice Hockey World Championship Division I Group B.
    Serbian hockey
    Senior 2A - U20 2B - U18 2B

  44. #244
    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,079

    Croatia Croatia - express

    14 honosított Horvátország vb-keretében
    http://www.jegkorongblog.hu/2015/03/...rvatorszagnak/

    Horvátország bő vb-kerete:

    Kapusok: Mate Tomljenovic (Medvescak Zagreb), Andrej Vasiljevic (Hermes, FIN-3.), Vilim Rosandic (Banská Bystrica, SVK), Michael Ouzas* (Linz, EBEL), Mark Dekanich* (Medvescak Zagreb, KHL).

    Hátvédek: Alan Letang, Borna Silovic (Medvescak Zagreb II), Sasa Martinovic* (Medvescak Zagreb, KHL), Marko Tadic (Mladost), Igor Jacmenjak, Bruno Kegalj, Roman Skrapec (KHL Zagreb), Ivan Sijan (Herlev, DEN), Andy Sertich* (Dornbirn, EBEL), Geoff Waugh* (Villach, EBEL), Kenny MacAulay* (Innsbruck, EBEL), Luka Markovic (csapat nélküli).

    Csatárok: Marko Sakic, Luka Mikulic, Ivan Brencun, Luka Vukoja (Medvescak Zagreb II), Andrew Murray*, Michael Glumac*, Nathan Perkovich*, Dario Kostovic* (Medvescak Zagreb, KHL), Tadija Miric, Mario Novak, Marko Ljubic (KHL Mladost), Mislav Blagus, Ivan Jankovic, Matija Milicic, Luka Jarcov (KHL Zagreb), Dominik Kanaet (Detva, SVK-2.), Adam Naglich* (Vienna Capitals, EBEL), Ryan Kinasewich* (Dornbirn, EBEL), Joel Prpic* (Brantford Blast Senior, ACH).
    Serbian hockey
    Senior 2A - U20 2B - U18 2B

  45. #245
    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,079

    IIHF 24-04-2011, 23:33

    See the Post #16

    BASSA

    The main problem is the fact that the IIHF does not limit the number of naturalized players for each team. for me it would be a maximum of 5 players and good bye.

    note that the chikago has about 1 million Serbs, somewhere in North America have as many Croats, etc, etc. .. only if some 0.1% of them play hockey there is good number of players which can play (if they deserve by quality) for their country.

    and why the original Serb, Croat and Polish, Italian, must have to play 2/or 4/ years in their home country? what is point of that rule, I do not understand?... stronger countries will easily avoide the laws like this.
    Serbian hockey
    Senior 2A - U20 2B - U18 2B

  46. #246
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Xingping, Shaanxi Province, China
    Posts
    3,120
    The first time the extremely relaxed rules for women have come up too, as it mentioned Caroline Park. She has NCAA Division I experience with Princeton. She has received a passport but the IIHF notes she's not eligible yet as she hasn't played in Korea. The very ambiguous rules state a player must participate "on a consistent basis" for one year in the nation.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  47. #247
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    8,141
    http://wmib2015.iihf.com/en/news/cro-review/

    Everything is wrong with your level of competition respective to your development program when the IIHF article listing the "recently eligible dual-nats" actually lists half your team.
    This is a push right back to the 80s and the reason for bringing in eligibility requirements in the first place.
    And when one or two countries do it, others on the bubble seem to feel the need to follow suit. Ugh.

  48. #248
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    2,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    http://wmib2015.iihf.com/en/news/cro-review/

    Everything is wrong with your level of competition respective to your development program when the IIHF article listing the "recently eligible dual-nats" actually lists half your team.
    This is a push right back to the 80s and the reason for bringing in eligibility requirements in the first place.
    And when one or two countries do it, others on the bubble seem to feel the need to follow suit. Ugh.
    http://wmib2015.iihf.com/en/games/20...me-actions-tab

  49. #249
    IHF Member WHawks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ĺrhus, Denmark
    Posts
    1,431
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    http://wmib2015.iihf.com/en/news/cro-review/

    Everything is wrong with your level of competition respective to your development program when the IIHF article listing the "recently eligible dual-nats" actually lists half your team.
    This is a push right back to the 80s and the reason for bringing in eligibility requirements in the first place.
    And when one or two countries do it, others on the bubble seem to feel the need to follow suit. Ugh.
    Yeah it makes me a bit sad to see, and clearly for some of these guys it has nothing to do with Croatia heritage either.
    I think South Korea's motives for adding lots of duals all of a sudden are slightly different than Croatia, and are more to do with their upcoming hosting of the winter olympics. Not that this is a good excuse either in my book.
    Either way this makes me unable to wish for either Croatia or South Korea to promote, however I still strongly believe the latter will. We've seen nations that in the past has almost explicitly dual nationals on their roster now have very few, GBR, NED and ITA are good examples of this, so some countries at least are moving in the right direction.
    And to make it perfectly clear I'm not against a player here and there deciding after spending several seasons in his new home country decides to suit up for it's national team, but it's when it blatantly becomes a strategic plan, it rubs me the wrong way.
    Either way other than South Korea who were you thinking of Steigs, with the following suit bit?

  50. #250
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Jūrmala, Latvia
    Posts
    21,272
    Is Korea really adding players though, they currently have three with foreign passports, four if you wish to count Woo Je Sung but he was born in Korea just played his youth hockey in Canada. Out of those three who were actually born outside Korea, I would really only count Testwuide as the "ringer" player. Radunske has spent seven years in Korea, five of those before he ever suited up for the national team while Swift has been there for four.

    I will wait to see what they do over the next few years before I criticize them for bringing in foreigners. I dont have that big of a problem with who they have besides Testwuide and somewhat Swift.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •