Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: 3 major excuses in international competition

  1. #1
    IHF Prospect
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    25

    IIHF 3 major excuses in international competition

    Hey all I have been lurking on these forums for a while but finally decided to post. I have been watching international hockey competition since I was a young kid and it seems every year there are the same 3 excuses that we hear from fans and even from reporters.
    1) This is by far the most favorite for the USA and Canada (but they by no means have a monopoly on this), we are playing our C team because our A players are playing in NHL playoffs and our B players are too tired to play having just lost to the A players in NHL play offs.

    First of all my personal opinion is that whatever team is playing for you in international is your A team, that’s the team you managed to get together to stand behind the flag and that’s the team your nations hockey skills will be judged by. Not some could have been team.

    But what bothers me the most is why is this excuse still here today, why can’t NHL adjust its schedule to accommodate the short international competition, every other hockey league has managed to do so. I would suggest sanctions by the IIHF even thou it would be bad for the competition initially, but I don’t see why they are needed why wouldn’t both sides be willing to work this issue out? Or is this excuse needed as something to fall back on in case NHL staffed team loses not to damage the league reputation.

    2) Bad referees, again I don’t know how legitimate this excuse is, but it seems to crop up regularly and purely on what I read from ppl who claim to know the rules it has some truth to it in some cases anyway. What is the reason for this , are the salaries of refs so poor that nobody wants the job, and those who do are so secure they don’t give a damn? Could referees have something like a driving license and have an international panel review random games and maybe all playoff games replay and identify poor reefing maybe deducting points from refs license based on severity of mistake and once points reach 0 revoke the license make it impossible for the ref to officiate for 3 years or something.

    3) Finally and I hear this literally in every single competition, mostly from the big 6-7 teams. The ICE is poor, it prevented us from playing the fast paced hockey that we can and added randomness to the game evening things out vs. that weaker defensive team that does not care about ice because they couldn’t skate any faster anyhow. The regularity of this excuse makes me wonder if good ice exists, does it? And if it does couldn’t certain standards be required from the host nation, that could be monitored by IIHF representetives. Or am I completely off and making Ice is a form of art rather than applying certain technology and maintaining optimal temperature?

    oops did not mean to put a russian flag icon next to the topic sort of just happend:)

  2. #2
    IHF Member Gazzw87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by asmodian View Post
    Hey all I have been lurking on these forums for a while but finally decided to post. I have been watching international hockey competition since I was a young kid and it seems every year there are the same 3 excuses that we hear from fans and even from reporters.
    1) This is by far the most favorite for the USA and Canada (but they by no means have a monopoly on this), we are playing our C team because our A players are playing in NHL playoffs and our B players are too tired to play having just lost to the A players in NHL play offs.

    First of all my personal opinion is that whatever team is playing for you in international is your A team, thatís the team you managed to get together to stand behind the flag and thatís the team your nations hockey skills will be judged by. Not some could have been team.

    But what bothers me the most is why is this excuse still here today, why canít NHL adjust its schedule to accommodate the short international competition, every other hockey league has managed to do so. I would suggest sanctions by the IIHF even thou it would be bad for the competition initially, but I donít see why they are needed why wouldnít both sides be willing to work this issue out? Or is this excuse needed as something to fall back on in case NHL staffed team loses not to damage the league reputation.
    I like this, especially the part about the A team. If the only players that are willing to represent their country is say... AHL guy rather then big NHL franchise guy then they still should be classed as your 'A' team 100%.

    What I don't understand (and yes people say its culture, tradition and whatever) is this... NA/NHL players simply refusing to play for USA or Canada and prefer to play for the Stanley cup overall. Yeah winning the Stanley cup is a big event especially for the NA players but for instance why would say Canadian player playing for Tampa Bay (US based team) rather play for them and win them glory then represent Canada in the World Champs!
    Dinamo Riga | Manchester Phoenix | Boston Bruins | Lokomotiv 7th September 2011

  3. #3
    IHF Member welmu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    -
    Posts
    621
    actually there is only one real excuse... go home refs

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by welmu View Post
    actually there is only one real excuse... go home refs
    No refs = no games.
    You can be sincere and still be stupid - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  5. #5
    IHF Member rusher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Rezekne
    Posts
    875
    Yeah, I agree... These are three very commonly found excuses in international hockey. Though, I'd say the first one (jn some cases) is not really an excuse... If you send a roster like USA's to the Wolds, you can't seriously (if it would happen), if you were Russia, win this team 4:3 and then say that it represents the situation of hockey in both countries... Of course, being this year's TEAM SLOVAKIA or TEAM RUSSIA fan, that have very good rosters you might be offended when someone says that we were playing with C team here but in case of USA or even Sweden... well, they are far from their top rosters. And it's not their fault that they didn't bring their best here... it's just their approach to this WC. Maybe for you it is very important to win this tournament but for others it isn't.

    And... be careful what you wish for If NHL really had a break every year during the WC I think some teams would really have to reconsider their place in the hockey world. Good USA roster would make for one more really serious opponent and Canada with their best would be clear top favourite

  6. #6
    IHF Member Gazzw87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    482
    Quote Originally Posted by rusher View Post
    Yeah, I agree... These are three very commonly found excuses in international hockey. Though, I'd say the first one (jn some cases) is not really an excuse... If you send a roster like USA's to the Wolds, you can't seriously (if it would happen), if you were Russia, win this team 4:3 and then say that it represents the situation of hockey in both countries... Of course, being this year's TEAM SLOVAKIA or TEAM RUSSIA fan, that have very good rosters you might be offended when someone says that we were playing with C team here but in case of USA or even Sweden... well, they are far from their top rosters. And it's not their fault that they didn't bring their best here... it's just their approach to this WC. Maybe for you it is very important to win this tournament but for others it isn't.

    And... be careful what you wish for If NHL really had a break every year during the WC I think some teams would really have to reconsider their place in the hockey world. Good USA roster would make for one more really serious opponent and Canada with their best would be clear top favourite
    Haha good points Rusher! My main point I don't understand is just why somebody who plays the sport at the top level, when asked by their country to represent at the World Champs they just say 'no thanks, i'd rather go fishing/play golf' weird! I would understand if it wasn't say as serious tournament or some friendly games ofcourse!

    Also regarding if the USA and CANADA sent a full NHL team say.. I've never considered USA to be so much a 'dangerous' opponent! Canada ofcourse, but meh I don't like the USA so much at hockey!
    Dinamo Riga | Manchester Phoenix | Boston Bruins | Lokomotiv 7th September 2011

  7. #7
    IHF Prospect
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    25
    do not actually think the results would change all that much, as we see from Olympics all big 6 teams remain competitive and Canada and US do not really have a better track record there then in the worlds. It would just remove an annoying excuse. I don't really think Russias top team has anything to fear from Canadas top team, either can win, and i don't think either do the major European hockey powers.

    I don't really see why anyone would not want world championship to be a competition of best on best, excuses aside, it would make for a better show.

  8. #8
    IHF Member BillyCanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On the bench
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by asmodian View Post
    1) This is by far the most favorite for the USA and Canada (but they by no means have a monopoly on this), we are playing our C team because our A players are playing in NHL playoffs and our B players are too tired to play having just lost to the A players in NHL play offs.
    This upsets me too, but also in a different way. It upsets me that Canadian fans view this tournament as 'boring' and 'worthless' because it doesn't feature our top NHL players. Regardless if Luongo or Dubnyk is in net, it is still the IIHF World Championship and an important global tournament. No, not as big as the Olympics, but still a great tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazzw87 View Post
    I like this, especially the part about the A team. If the only players that are willing to represent their country is say... AHL guy rather then big NHL franchise guy then they still should be classed as your 'A' team 100%.

    What I don't understand (and yes people say its culture, tradition and whatever) is this... NA/NHL players simply refusing to play for USA or Canada and prefer to play for the Stanley cup overall. Yeah winning the Stanley cup is a big event especially for the NA players but for instance why would say Canadian player playing for Tampa Bay (US based team) rather play for them and win them glory then represent Canada in the World Champs!
    It doesn't matter if you are playing for Phoenix or Montreal, the Stanley Cup is the HOLY GRAIL to North American hockey players. It is one the oldest competition trophies in the WORLD (England's FA Cup, Ashes Urn, and I think two others being older).

    Also, players cannot play in the IIHF tournament if their professional team is still competing unless they want to risk being sued by their team for breaching contract and potentially losing millions of dollars.

    As for players not reporting once their season is completed, well try playing an 82 game schedule in 7 months, in a league that covers the entire continent of North America (West Coast NHL teams have the worst travel schedules in the world), and covers 4 different time zones. That is a lot of wear and tare on the body during a season.

    Most European leagues have to worry about 1 time zone and travel only on the weekends in a geographic market the size of Texas and California! Yes most NHL teams fly, but that is still rough when you are playing 4 games in 7 nights, in 4 different cities.

    Yes, the KHL also has a large geographic map, but they only play 54 games (28 games less!)

    So I think we should cut the players a little slack when they say 'Thanks, but no thanks.'

    The NHL doesn't view the World Championship as an important IIHF event enough to alter their schedule. Good luck trying to convince the owners in reducing the NHL schedule to less games (Less Games = Less Ticket $$$).

    I would like to see the NHL move up their schedule to start in September, allowing the players on teams that do not make the playoffs time to rest and start training with the national team.

  9. #9
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by asmodian View Post
    First of all my personal opinion is that whatever team is playing for you in international is your A team, thatís the team you managed to get together to stand behind the flag and thatís the team your nations hockey skills will be judged by. Not some could have been team.

    But what bothers me the most is why is this excuse still here today, why canít NHL adjust its schedule to accommodate the short international competition, every other hockey league has managed to do so. I would suggest sanctions by the IIHF even thou it would be bad for the competition initially, but I donít see why they are needed why wouldnít both sides be willing to work this issue out? Or is this excuse needed as something to fall back on in case NHL staffed team loses not to damage the league reputation.
    First of all they don't send A teams mainly not because players don't want to play but because they now play in MUCH stronger and much more important tournament known as NHL playoffs. In IHWC you get players which are to weak to ever make NHL, too old to play in it any longer or too weak to get far in playoffs. That's it. The best players now play in NHL playoffs and IHWC is hockey's fourth most important tournament while NHL is the first.

    Why NHL can't adjust schedule? Why should it? It's IIHF that should adjust to NHL 'cos NHL is much stronger organisation and IIHF is weaker and weaker especially under Fasel/Medvedev combo. Suggesting IIHF should punish NHL is simply ridiculous. First of all - IIHF can't punish organisation which doesn't belong to IIHF. Second as mentioned before NHL is MUCH stronger on international area than IIHF.NHL started earlier than IHWC and Stanley Cup is much more prestigious than Worlds gold.

    Instead of crying that NHL smokes IIHF the latter should do their job. IHWC is now boring tournament with level of play lower than AHL and played too often. And that's surely not NHL's problem. It'll be hard to completely overhaul world hockey system just to overcome Russian complexes.

  10. #10
    IHF Member rusher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Rezekne
    Posts
    875
    Quote Originally Posted by asmodian View Post
    I don't really think Russias top team has anything to fear from Canadas top team, either can win
    That's what got Russia 3-7 in the last Olympics...
    Seriously, Canada has dominated few last U20 Championships (and their top players were already in NHL) and only now Russia has won U20 again. Canada has got plenty of talent aged 19-22, a lot of top talent... Russia has- how many? Guys of Eberle, Skinner, Tavares, Stamkos, Duchene level?

    Yes, there are good Russian prospects coming that we saw in U18 championship but they'll be still very young at sochi while these Canadians will be ready to play big. And Russia does not have much talent (if compared to Canada) in this age group.

    d love to see Russia win at Sochi but at the moment it seems like they are doing everything wrong... Nabokov in the net (who I doubt will play at Sochi), no Kuznetsov in the team (one of the people of that kind of calibre I mentioned), this arrogance that "we are the best". Sad reality is that Russia will be badly outshoot 25-40 in Sochi by Canadians and Russia should think about how their defense will look like there and how they can stop Canadas forwards... and about a star goalkeeper that could make the cruicial saves. But they have Nabokov in the net and offense in mind....

  11. #11
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    First of all, welcome to the forums.

    Second, my views -

    1. People (including me) always bitch and complain about refereeing in hockey. Hockey is an exceptionally tough sport to referee, and we have to acknowledge how hard the referees work to do their job. What drives people crazy though, especially from North America, is that IIHF referees seem to feel that hockey is a non-contact sport. Hard but clean checks, done within the rules of the sport, are NOT a penalty - even if someone gets injured as a result.

    2. I've never heard anyone complain about the ice quality in IIHF events before, but that's just me.

    3. I think several of you are not giving American hockey its proper respect, and Asmodian's post reflects a lack of understanding as to both North American hockey psyche/culture, as well as the truth between NHL-IIHF relations.

    The USA, in the past ten years, has two men's ice hockey Olympic silver medals to its credit - not too shabby, better than most of the Top 7 nations, and certainly to be respected as a "dangerous opponent." When the USA fields its best roster, consisting of all NHL first and second liners, it either beats or is a threat to beat any nation on the planet.

    I'm not saying Russia or Sweden or Canada or Finland or the Czechs need to fear the USA, but the USA certainly doesn't need to fear any of them.

    At the IIHF WC's, the American team is usually an afterthought, consisting of marginal 4th line NHL'ers, AHL'ers, and NCAA D.I players - and many of the AHL'ers and NCAA D.I players that the USA sends are not even stars at those levels, so they're not about to be able to usually beat first liners from the KHL, Elitserein, SM-Liiga, NLA, etc. (although they usually can compete pretty closely with them; the US even outshot Sweden yesterday but received poor goaltending).

    Why?

    In American (and Canadian) hockey culture, the NHL is king. Period. Winning the Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal, and comes way ahead of the IIHF WC's, which is viewed by the vast majority of North American hockey fans as a tournament that NHL'ers knocked out of the playoffs who still might like to play go to, along with marginal NHL guys trying to earn their next NHL contract, minor-leaguers (which includes all non-NHL leagues according to most North American hockey fans), and university players.

    Why would players care more about playing for their NHL clubs than playing for their countries? For a start, it's not about choice - they're under contract to follow their NHL team's orders. Secondly, for many of them, they don't care about the WC's because the WC's are not a best on best competition, whereas, in the NHL, they are playing in the world's undisputed #1 pro league (which doesn't have all of the world's best players, but certainly the majority of them), and vying for the symbol of world professional ice hockey supremacy. If they want to play best vs. best in international play, they wait for the Olympics.

    In short, in North American hockey culture, the IIHF Worlds are not viewed as an important event, much less a world class event. In North American hockey culture, international hockey is viewed as important during the Olympics, and, in Canada, also during the IIHF U-20's. A tiny (and I mean microscopic) amount of American hockey fans also care about the IIHF U-20's and IIHF U-18's.

    The reality is that in the USA, all IIHF events are barely covered by the media - if they are covered at all. Versus, a small cable network that the majority of Americans don't receive, is, for the very first time, televising the US's games.....but only the US's games. There is no other TV coverage, absolutely no radio coverage, and essentially no newspaper coverage. Here in the heart of New York - the media capital of the world - the local newspapers literally give one sentence about the US team in the by-lines, and nothing about the rest of the tournament. "The U.S. team beat Norway 4-2 yesterday at the IIHF World Championships. Al Montoya of the NY Islanders was in goal for the USA."

    The public at large has never even heard of the IIHF WC's, and even Americans who are hockey fans have very little knowledge of it, because it simply is ignored by the media.

    Given that Canada is the world's most rabid hockey nation, the IIHF WC's, and their men's team, receive some coverage, but the public cares far, far more about the NHL, the Major Junior leagues' playoffs and the Memorial Cup, and the IIHF U-20's.

    As for the IIHF "sanctioning" the NHL, it can't happen. The NHL is not only outside of IIHF jurisdiction, it is economically much more powerful than the IIHF. And the NHL playoffs could not be finished in time for the IIHF Worlds unless the NHL reduced its regular season schedule by a fair amount of games (which is an economic non-starter), or moved the start of the regular season back to middle-to-late summer (also not viable, due to competition from other sports that are more popular in the USA than hockey).

    So, you can call people like myself calling the USA and Canada teams our "C" level teams an excuse, but the reality is that these teams do not reflect the true strength of our nations' hockey prowess, or even anything close to our true strength. I wouldn't call it an excuse, but it is a valid observation - it is what it is.

    Yes, all top nations are missing certain of their top players due to the impact of the Stanley Cup playoffs, but due to the reality of the fact that the vast majority of the top Americans and Canadians play in the NHL, combined with the hockey culture here in North America, the US and Canada are impacted far more adversely than the other top teams at the IIHF WC's.

  12. #12
    IHF Prospect
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    25
    This getting a bit side tracked but anyway, I dont think I ever not give credit to the US team I just dont buy in to the whole if we had our beest nhl players we would own everyone thing.
    As for the olympics yes we lost badly last year, we won the year before I am not going to drudge all the previous olympic results, but I am prety sure you would be hard pressed to proove us canada domination in that tourney.
    I think it is to early to tell about SOCHI and I do not feel confident enough to second guess Bykov who brought some preety good results. But I do know is that I do not want to see Russian team reduced to playing defensivly even if it brings victory. Sure we should have solid defense, but offense is the style of our hockey and thats how we should play it.

  13. #13
    IHF Member Ref72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazzw87 View Post
    What I don't understand (and yes people say its culture, tradition and whatever) is this... NA/NHL players simply refusing to play for USA or Canada and prefer to play for the Stanley cup overall. Yeah winning the Stanley cup is a big event especially for the NA players but for instance why would say Canadian player playing for Tampa Bay (US based team) rather play for them and win them glory then represent Canada in the World Champs!
    I dont think this is a matter of choice. Its not that NHL players dont want to represent their countries. It is because they are under contract making a living playing for their NHL team. If there is a schedule conflict, they can't just pack up and leave.

  14. #14
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    " I dont think I ever not give credit to the US team I just dont buy in to the whole if we had our beest nhl players we would own everyone thing. "

    I don't know anyone who says that. However, if the USA did send the same roster to the Worlds that it did to the most recent Olympics, the Americans would be a serious gold medal threat. Then again, if Canada, Sweden, Finland, and the Czechs had all of their NHL'ers, they'd also be stronger. Again, though, the USA and Canada would be much, much stronger than the teams they've sent this year, as opposed to a comparatively modest increase in strength.

  15. #15
    IHF Member Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Turin, Italy
    Posts
    2,991
    Quote Originally Posted by asmodian View Post
    do not actually think the results would change all that much, as we see from Olympics all big 6 teams remain competitive and Canada and US do not really have a better track record there then in the worlds. It would just remove an annoying excuse. I don't really think Russias top team has anything to fear from Canadas top team, either can win, and i don't think either do the major European hockey powers.

    I don't really see why anyone would not want world championship to be a competition of best on best, excuses aside, it would make for a better show.
    Drug, you forgot NA excuse N.1: "We lost because we didn't care"
    My articles at The Hockey Writers

  16. #16
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    Cute and trite, Alessandro, but the details above show why neither the U.S. nor Canada sends anything approximating its best team.

    On a serious note, why do you think that the U.S. and Canada do so much better in the Olympics than this tournament?

    Russia would likewise be seriously strengthened if it were able to send all of its top NHL players........it's just that Russia sends a team to this event that is proportionately closer to its best roster than Canada or Sweden or Finland or the Czechs, and MUCH closer to its best roster than the U.S.

    That's not an excuse........it's an observation of simple fact.

  17. #17
    IHF Member Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Turin, Italy
    Posts
    2,991
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Cute and trite, Alessandro, but the details above show why neither the U.S. nor Canada sends anything approximating its best team.
    Their problem, not Russia's or other countries'

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    On a serious note, why do you think that the U.S. and Canada do so much better in the Olympics than this tournament?
    Home/small ice, in Turin they were bad and I think in Sochi they will be too. We'll see when they'll do them in 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Russia would likewise be seriously strengthened if it were able to send all of its top NHL players........it's just that Russia sends a team to this event that is proportionately closer to its best roster than Canada or Sweden or Finland or the Czechs, and MUCH closer to its best roster than the U.S.

    That's not an excuse........it's an observation of simple fact.
    It's not true. Team Czech R. for example this year is very good.
    And anyhow, I was more talking about "fans".
    My articles at The Hockey Writers

  18. #18
    IHF Member Kiraly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada
    Posts
    454
    One perspective from Vancouver, Canada:

    About 7.5 pages of yesterdays' Vancouver Province was devoted to the Canucks and the NHL playoffs. The IIHF W.C. received less than 10% of one page - standings and results for Wednesday games. This is equivalent to the coverage given to the AHL Playoffs.

    Many people are not even aware the W.C. is taking place right now and those that do don't really care.

    If I want to discuss the W.C. with anyone, I have to go come here.

  19. #19
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    Not saying it isn't their problem, Alessandro.

    It IS their problem.

    However, it reflects the fact that the IIHF Worlds just simply are not that highly regarded here in North America by 99% of hockey fans, and the American general public that doesn't follow hockey doesn't even know it exists.

    That's why I don't really care so much about the IIHF world rankings......this tournament messes them up.

    Ultimately, I know that my country (USA) has as good a chance as any to win gold in a best on best format, which unfortunately the IIHF Worlds are not.

    With that said, I am in the 1% American hockey fan minority that really loves the IIHF Worlds and actively follows it.

  20. #20
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Cute and trite, Alessandro, but the details above show why neither the U.S. nor Canada sends anything approximating its best team.

    On a serious note, why do you think that the U.S. and Canada do so much better in the Olympics than this tournament?

    Russia would likewise be seriously strengthened if it were able to send all of its top NHL players........it's just that Russia sends a team to this event that is proportionately closer to its best roster than Canada or Sweden or Finland or the Czechs, and MUCH closer to its best roster than the U.S.

    That's not an excuse........it's an observation of simple fact.
    Actually, NA interest in this tournament I believe is at an all time high, at least in Canada.
    This is so for two reasons.
    First, media coverage is much better, especially with TSN coverage of the tournament.
    In years past, media coverage, even in Canada, was scant and of secondary, even tertiary importance.
    More importantly, the playing field has become relatively level over the past two decades.
    It wasn't until 1977 that NHL pros were even allowed to compete in the WC's.
    But the biggest factor has been political...the dissolution of the USSR and the fall of the communist regimes.
    The fall of communism meant that Russians could finally go abroad and play, including the NHL,
    like other Europeaan players had done for years.
    But now Russian, Czech and Slovak players, like Swedes and Finns for years before, are not always able to play
    for their respective national sides because they were still playing in the Stanley Cup playoffs.
    So all the major nations (and to some extent, the minor ones too) are affected by this.
    Every nation is in the same boat now, so to speak.
    Canada has done reasonably well in this tournament from the early 90's till now.
    It was in 1994 Canada finally broke a 33 year championship drought, mainly because the competing
    nations were now on relatively equal footing.

  21. #21
    IHF Member ElQuapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ňrhus, Denmark
    Posts
    779
    The IHWC are played to often, and that is part of the problem. I am saying this as a very big fan of the tournament.

    I think the IIHF should hold the tournament only every 4 years, and then try to make some sort of agreement with the NHL. They could then hold European Championships during the years in between.

    The perfect international championship cycle would be something like:

    2012 - IHWC (with NHL participation)
    2013 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2014 - Olympics (with NHL participation)
    2015 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2016 - IHWC (with NHL participation)
    2017 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2018 - Olympics (with NHL participation)
    2019 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    etc.
    etc.

    The Divisions below the Elite division could be played every year to garantee games for the smaller nations etc. They could also function as feeders to the Elite division. For example, at every IHWC two teams are relegated. At the next IHWC 4 years later, the two teams ranked highest in the World Rankings (who are not already qualified) will be added - so the European Championships and the lower divisions can be used to score points towards being promoted to the IHWC.

  22. #22
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    As I said, I love the IIHF Worlds, even though it's not best on best, and even though it means that the USA always sends a comparatively weak team. So for me, I'd still like the Worlds to be played every year.

    Maybe there's some more interest in Canada this year, but here in the States.........business as usual. No coverage whatsoever unless you're on an internet site like this one (i.e., devoted to international hockey and/or a truly hardcore hockey website), with the sole exception being that Versus is televising the U.S. games.

  23. #23
    IHF Member BillyCanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On the bench
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by ElQuapo View Post
    The IHWC are played to often, and that is part of the problem. I am saying this as a very big fan of the tournament.

    I think the IIHF should hold the tournament only every 4 years, and then try to make some sort of agreement with the NHL. They could then hold European Championships during the years in between.

    The perfect international championship cycle would be something like:

    2012 - IHWC (with NHL participation)
    2013 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2014 - Olympics (with NHL participation)
    2015 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2016 - IHWC (with NHL participation)
    2017 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    2018 - Olympics (with NHL participation)
    2019 - European Championships (only players from European leagues)
    etc.
    etc.

    The Divisions below the Elite division could be played every year to garantee games for the smaller nations etc. They could also function as feeders to the Elite division. For example, at every IHWC two teams are relegated. At the next IHWC 4 years later, the two teams ranked highest in the World Rankings (who are not already qualified) will be added - so the European Championships and the lower divisions can be used to score points towards being promoted to the IHWC.
    I am all for a tournament set up like the World Cup of Hockey. That would be great. But, getting the NHL on board would require Gary Bettman leaving his position. The NHL considers itself higher than the IIHF.

    Too bad, I would like to see more global cooperation in hockey. It can only help the sport.

  24. #24
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    Here's a perfect example of the IIHF essentially admitting that it is not as powerful as the NHL, straight from the mouth of Rene Fasel:

    http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=364863

    So the chances of the NHL ever releasing all of its players for the Worlds remains at zero.

  25. #25
    IHF Member ElQuapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ňrhus, Denmark
    Posts
    779
    Well, the NHLPA seems to like the idea, and according to this article the IIHF is holding back:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/...rlds_schedule/

    I know the NHLPA is not the NHL, but they can put pressure on the NHL, as we saw during the lockout.

  26. #26
    IHF Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    France
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCanuck View Post
    It doesn't matter if you are playing for Phoenix or Montreal, the Stanley Cup is the HOLY GRAIL to North American hockey players. It is one the oldest competition trophies in the WORLD (England's FA Cup, Ashes Urn, and I think two others being older).
    Just for notice, I know two rugby trophies which are older :
    - Calcutta Cup (annual England/Scotland match), 1879
    - Bouclier de Brennus (French national championships), first awarded in March 1892, one year before first Stanley Cup

    I don't if there are the two mentioned trophies, i presume other trophies exist.
    That's the way it crumbles, cookie-wise

  27. #27
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Islip, New York
    Posts
    9,944
    Here's a very interesting article from the New York Times that examines the world hockey rankings, and proposes a formula that the author believes more accurately assesses a nation's hockey strength.

    I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it is interesting and worthy of a debate.

    http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...am/#more-37463

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •