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Thread: 2012 IIHF World Championship in Finland/Sweden - news/discussion

  1. #401
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    The top players were NHL players, Vicente........impossible to deny.

  2. #402
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Congratulations to Russia on the gold.....far and away the best team at the tournament!

    Congrats also to Slovakia on a great Cinderella run, and to the Czechs for earning bronze.

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    Top european players are playing in NHL because it is the most developed league. That is true.
    But we saw performance of whole-NHL teams like Canada and USA. Thanks them brought for this "unimportant" championship few Vancouver 2010 Olympic champions like Getzlaf Keith. Even if Crosby was there he couldn't change anything. Canada is only 5th in IIHF ranking.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    Why not to mention it? It's simple curiosity or trivia.

    I always cheer for all Slavic nations so it's nice to see for me. If it's not nice to you, your problem.
    Your statement simply has a kind of ethnicity rooted flavour that I deem potentially questionable politically. Suppose some let's say German guy told he'd always cheer for "Germanic" nations. Odds are that such a person has certain extremist views I can't stand at all. Therefore, I'm not up to this Germanic, Slavic etc. stuff and I'm not fond of that being of any importance around here. That's the point I want to have made and apart from that you may of course cheer for whatever you want.

  5. #405
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protmn View Post
    Top european players are playing in NHL because it is the most developed league. That is true.
    But we saw performance of whole-NHL teams like Canada and USA. Thanks them brought for this "unimportant" championship few Vancouver 2010 Olympic champions like Getzlaf Keith. Even if Crosby was there he couldn't change anything. Canada is only 5th in IIHF ranking.
    I think that the performance of what is almost a Canadian U23 team to be not too bad at all. Only one overtime loss and winning the preliminary group, and a tough but very close loss to the eventual silver-medallist. I think it's hard to argue that they had a terrible tournament.
    And to say that Crosby couldn't have changed anything I think is quite false. His skill might well have made the difference in the QF game, and in the end that might have made for a Canada-Russia final. But "if" doesn't really mean much at this point anyway, does it?
    As far as the ranking goes, the top nations remain the top nations, whatever order you wish to place them in. Any of them can win any tournament in any given year.

    Congratulations to Russia on the victory, it was well-deserved.

    Congratulations to Slovakia on an incredible run, it was wonderful to be so wrong in my pre-tournament predictions.

    And congratulations finally to the Czechs, who finished the tournament with a strong win and a medal. Always the toughest game to play.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    And to say that Crosby couldn't have changed anything I think is quite false. His skill might well have made the difference in the QF
    I just meant that he has trauma and his gameplay this season was weak. Wish him feel himself well next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    As far as the ranking goes, the top nations remain the top nations, whatever order you wish to place them in.
    I can back this

    I was dissapointed by Belarus and Latvian teams. They both KHL club-based teams, especially Latvia (Dinamo Minsk constructs gameplay over legionnaires). Latvia shows really beautiful game in best soviet traditions but we see that it gives no points profit.
    Last edited by protmn; 21-05-2012 at 12:09.

  7. #407
    IHF Member takharov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Your statement simply has a kind of ethnicity rooted flavour that I deem potentially questionable politically. Suppose some let's say German guy told he'd always cheer for "Germanic" nations. Odds are that such a person has certain extremist views I can't stand at all. Therefore, I'm not up to this Germanic, Slavic etc. stuff and I'm not fond of that being of any importance around here. That's the point I want to have made and apart from that you may of course cheer for whatever you want.
    Stop being so right on and PC about it. Have you met this person face to face that you can judge them on a comment made on a forum ? Stop making assumptions.

    Scandinavian fans while they have their rivalries often do raise a cheer when their neighbour does triumph. Here in England being very fair minded we cheer for Wales and Scotland when they compete by and large. Or is that dangerous too ?

    Superb perfect 10 from Russia. Billy has coached a team not a collection of individiuals. Sochi 2014 on big ice will be a really tough test to win gold. Home expectation, other countries bringing their best rosters (all being well) and who knows if injuries will rule out a key player ?

    Wonderfully hosted by the Swedes and Finns. Shame about the ticket prices. Warm congratulations to the Slovaks wonderfully led by Chara and coached by Vujtek and similarly to the Czech team. Commiserations to the Finns on home ice. Not to be this year but there is always next year.

  8. #408
    IHF Member Pršljen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Your statement simply has a kind of ethnicity rooted flavour that I deem potentially questionable politically. Suppose some let's say German guy told he'd always cheer for "Germanic" nations. Odds are that such a person has certain extremist views I can't stand at all. Therefore, I'm not up to this Germanic, Slavic etc. stuff and I'm not fond of that being of any importance around here. That's the point I want to have made and apart from that you may of course cheer for whatever you want.
    If you think it has, OK. I know that I wrote it only because of curiosity and because it makes me happy that probably my three favourite nations won three medals. It wasn't meant to have any political or extremist meaning, that's for sure.

    I really don't understand how you read that in my post where I wrote that all three medals went to Slavic nations...
    Hokej u Hrvatskoj ima svijetlu budućnost SAMO AKO mjerodavni ljudi rade svoj posao kako treba - Pršljen
    Hockey in Croatia has a bright future ONLY IF relevant people do their job right - Pršljen

  9. #409
    IHF Member ElQuapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Your statement simply has a kind of ethnicity rooted flavour that I deem potentially questionable politically. Suppose some let's say German guy told he'd always cheer for "Germanic" nations. Odds are that such a person has certain extremist views I can't stand at all. Therefore, I'm not up to this Germanic, Slavic etc. stuff and I'm not fond of that being of any importance around here. That's the point I want to have made and apart from that you may of course cheer for whatever you want.
    Well said - I agree with you 100%.

    The whole idea of "ethnicity" playing some role national team sports can so easily get out of hand - I see some of the same problems in the threads discussing who should and should not be allowed to play for X national team - where for some reason ethnicity and not citizenship is preferred by some fans.

    That being said, I am sure most people here don't mean anything extreme with these things - I just don't get it myself.

  10. #410
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    TV Numbers

    I wonder what the TV numbers for different countries in the tourney looked like? For Slovakia:

    Slovakia - Russia 1 788 000
    Slovakia - Czech republic 1 453 000
    Slovakia - Canada 777 000
    Slovakia - France 956 000
    Slovakia - Switzerland 1 353 000
    Slovakia - Belarus 808 000

    As this counts only households, it is likely that during the last 2-3 games the numbers were even much higher considering that tens of thousands of people watched in in bars/streets.
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  11. #411
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    If cheering for the teams coming from countries with similar or same linguistic or cultural or ethnic background is somehow undesirable because of this or that tiny minority of extremists than I wonder why do we still have national teams and why are we allowed to cheer for them in the first place? How about abolishing national teams all together and let private clubs organising their own world championships all in the name of private corporations. Than we are all going to be "cured" of such diseases as patriotism and be capable of cheering only multinational teams composed by the principle of what money can buy.

    Sorry for the rant, but I think that this hypersensitivity about all things national is going too far. Without nations and people who cheer for them, there is no need for national championships nor world championships. We can abolish all topics in the forum except for NHL, KHL and European Trophey ones.

  12. #412
    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    Finnish numbers. First the average viewers and in parentheses the peak viewers.

    Finland - Belarus 1 180 000 (1 390 000)
    Finland - Slovakia 1 220 000 (1 500 000)
    Finland - Switzerland 1 280 000 (1 560 000)
    Finland - France 1 200 000 (1 430 000)
    Finland - Canada 1 310 000 (1 580 000)
    Finland - USA 1 030 000 (1 270 000)
    Finland - Kazakstan 1 050 000 (1 320 000)

    Finland - USA 1 380 000 (1 780 000)

    I didn't find the semifinal and bronze game tv ratings with a quick search though. For comparison with Slovakia, last year's IHWC final had average attendance of 2 060 000 in Finland with a peak at 2.6 million, just under 50% of the Finnish populace.
    "Lord Baelish, what you suggest is treason."
    "Only if we lose."

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  13. #413
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protmn View Post
    I just meant that he has trauma and his gameplay this season was weak. Wish him feel himself well next season.
    22 GP, 8+29=37Pts... 3+5=8Pts in 7 games in playoffs. Not exactly weak play, I think.
    Definitely the concussions hurt him, but if he had kept that pace all season Crosby would have ended with 137 points. Physically he was probably fresher than most players due to the fact that he played so few games relative to others. And I definitely think he could hvae brought at least some of that scoring to Team Canada if he had come out.

  14. #414
    IHF Member ElQuapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    If cheering for the teams coming from countries with similar or same linguistic or cultural or ethnic background is somehow undesirable because of this or that tiny minority of extremists than I wonder why do we still have national teams and why are we allowed to cheer for them in the first place? How about abolishing national teams all together and let private clubs organising their own world championships all in the name of private corporations. Than we are all going to be "cured" of such diseases as patriotism and be capable of cheering only multinational teams composed by the principle of what money can buy.

    Sorry for the rant, but I think that this hypersensitivity about all things national is going too far. Without nations and people who cheer for them, there is no need for national championships nor world championships. We can abolish all topics in the forum except for NHL, KHL and European Trophey ones.
    I don't think you can compare it to club teams like that. I enjoy watching the international game, as the national team is like a symbol of the quality of hockey played by the citizens of the nation in which I live - whereas the quality of a club team is much more based on the teams economic capability.

    Also, I like my nation. I like our system of government, our welfare system, our culture etc. etc. But this nation is made up of the citizens of Denmark, and not of Danes as a specific ethnic group.

    Just like anyone who is a Danish citizen has the same rights towards the state, everyone who is a Danish citizen should have the same rights with regards to playing on the Danish national team. This means, that Lars from Canada is in no way a Dane and has no place on the Danish national team, even if his ancestors are from Denmark - and it also means that if Muhammed, George and Alexandr have Danish citizenship, then they are Danes no matter where their ancestors come from.

    So there is nothing wrong with cheering for ones national team - but for example cheering for specific ethnic or religious groups opens up a can of worms in my humble opinion.

  15. #415
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Hockey republic

    The Slovak National Uprising square in Bratislava is full with tens of thousands of people celebrating their "golden" silver boys right now. They were originally supposed to arrive there at 3p.m. CET after parading through the streets of Bratislava in an open bus, but they were slowed down as people stood everywhere in the streets to get a peak at them or shake hands, cars stopped etc. All broadcasted live on two TV channels. Can´t find any good picture or videos right now, but I will try to post some later.



    Days like these are why I love hockey and the IHWC. (May some North American fans think whatever they want about it)
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    22 GP, 8+29=37Pts... 3+5=8Pts in 7 games in playoffs. Not exactly weak play, I think.
    Definitely the concussions hurt him, but if he had kept that pace all season Crosby would have ended with 137 points. Physically he was probably fresher than most players due to the fact that he played so few games relative to others. And I definitely think he could hvae brought at least some of that scoring to Team Canada if he had come out.
    Those hoping for a Canadian gold medal of course wishes Sid the Kid would have come out.
    But the Penguins have millions invested in him and let's face it a player with a significant concussion history
    such as Crosby could conceivably go down again at any time.
    Maybe he would have gone if it was his choice but I think the Penguin organization strongly advised him not too, IMO.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    The Slovak National Uprising square in Bratislava is full with tens of thousands of people celebrating their "golden" silver boys right now. They were originally supposed to arrive there at 3p.m. CET after parading through the streets of Bratislava in an open bus, but they were slowed down as people stood everywhere in the streets to get a peak at them or shake hands, cars stopped etc. All broadcasted live on two TV channels. Can´t find any good picture or videos right now, but I will try to post some later.



    Days like these are why I love hockey and the IHWC. (May some North American fans think whatever they want about it)
    It is wonderful :-) I hope it will give Slovakian hockey and the extraliga a new boost again .....

    I already instructed my business partner to speak about hockey, when going to business meeting in Slovakia later this week - it hopefully pays off with some better prices :-))))

  18. #418
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  19. #419
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Great pic, Jaaa.

    As for numbers, I doubt 250,000 households in the USA (out of 300 million) watched any of the games.

    There was no TV coverage at all, other than on the NBC Sports Network (a small pay-based cable TV network, not the giant general NBC channel with a nationwide reach) & the NHL Network (again, a small pay-based cable TV network).

    There was no radio coverage, & no newspaper coverage (other than a single sentence byline here or there - "Russia won the 2012 world hockey championship over Slovakia last night by a 6-2 score").

    Not even a passing mention on the morning news on either TV or radio.

    Of course, that is the norm here in the States when it comes to the Worlds.

  20. #420
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Protmn -

    The team that the US sent this year was nominally all NHL players - many of them first or second year players, many of whom split time with the AHL farm club, and most of whom are fourth, perhaps third, liners. We did have a legitimate starting NHL goaltender in Jimmy Howard, and 2/3 of a legitimate top line with Paul Stastny & Bobby Ryan. But that's about it. This was a C / C- grade USA men's team, and they played very well, finishing the event with six wins and two losses.

    I don't worry too much about the IIHF rankings as a result.

    When the Olympics start, Canada will still be the team with the best chance to win gold in my view, with Russia and Sweden the other main contenders, regardless of what the IIHF rankings say.

    The reality is that this tournament plays havoc on the rankings due to most of the nations not being able to field their best, or close to their best, rosters.

    Does anyone here really think that any country - when they all have their best rosters - has truly as good a chance for gold as any of the three I mentioned? Sure, the USA, Finland, the Czechs, and MAYBE the Slovaks can also compete for the gold, but would you bet your hard earned money on their chances over any of Canada, Russia or Sweden, regardless of what the official rankings say?

  21. #421
    IHF Member Pršljen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElQuapo View Post
    So there is nothing wrong with cheering for ones national team - but for example cheering for specific ethnic or religious groups opens up a can of worms in my humble opinion.
    I strongly disagree. Me cheering for Slavic nations has no extremist, religous or ethnic background. As Drax said, it's really going too far. It's extremistic to cheer for Slavic nations? Really?

    I know it's off topic and that this is no psychological or political forum but I must answer to some of you who called me as person who has extremistic views only because I said that three Slavic nations won three medals and because I cheer for them more than I cheer for others.

    Once again - absolute rubbish!
    Hokej u Hrvatskoj ima svijetlu budućnost SAMO AKO mjerodavni ljudi rade svoj posao kako treba - Pršljen
    Hockey in Croatia has a bright future ONLY IF relevant people do their job right - Pršljen

  22. #422
    IHF Member ElQuapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    I strongly disagree. Me cheering for Slavic nations has no extremist, religous or ethnic background. As Drax said, it's really going too far. It's extremistic to cheer for Slavic nations? Really?

    I know it's off topic and that this is no psychological or political forum but I must answer to some of you who called me as person who has extremistic views only because I said that three Slavic nations won three medals and because I cheer for them more than I cheer for others.

    Once again - absolute rubbish!
    No no, I am sorry - I in no way meant to call you or anyone else here an extremist. I apologize if it seemed that way.

    As I wrote before, I am sure nobody here is thinking in that direction.

    I am just stating why I think bringing things like ethnicity and religion into nationhood is a bad idea.

  23. #423
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    To clarify: this thing of an ethnical sentiment between people of one nation (for whatever that means) or taken further from one particular supra ethnic group is for me not a 0 or 1 question there is a continuum and of course there are levels to which someone might adhere to that without being extremistic (that is esentially when you don't take it really serious).
    I think however that in present day Europe this idea of nation and ethnicity CAN still become a danger for the enlighted open mindedness that acknowledges the equality of people irrespctive of ethnic or racial background and for too many people this is the case (I'm sure we don't have anyone of this ind here). Therefore I am basically critical of statements in that direction and I take my freedom to stipulate the discussion about it. That's it, no more no less.

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    The US obviously faces depth problems and their NHLers with few exceptions aren´t stars, so I would say it´s not shocking to see them go home, they have actually exceeded expactations playing really good hockey all tourney long except for game against Slovakia.
    I'm sure this isn't necessarily a point you're looking to argue but I feel the US actually has quite good depth. High end talent is an issue for sure but depth-wise I think the US is and will continue to be in pretty good shape.

    The depth issues in the World Championships have more to do with players declining invites or being unavailable. It's a problem that has no real solution. The US has no choice but to go with players who are mostly young and inexperienced with the international game and each other. We have no "core" to build on (except maybe Jack Johnson, if you can consider one player a core) and given that IIHF tournaments are all about chemistry and consistency we're pretty much lost most of the time.

  25. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Your statement simply has a kind of ethnicity rooted flavour that I deem potentially questionable politically. Suppose some let's say German guy told he'd always cheer for "Germanic" nations. Odds are that such a person has certain extremist views I can't stand at all. Therefore, I'm not up to this Germanic, Slavic etc. stuff and I'm not fond of that being of any importance around here. That's the point I want to have made and apart from that you may of course cheer for whatever you want.
    The war is over. If you want it to be.
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  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ro Herregraven View Post
    The war is over. If you want it to be.
    Which one? There's still some going on....
    Otherwise I'm with you and my intention of stimulating discourse is already met.

  27. #427
    IHF Member andy's Avatar
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    WAW. This is really amazing.. Thanks for the picture, Jaaa.

  28. #428
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Some video

    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  29. #429
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    This one´s pretty funny staring the two youngsters Tomáš Tatar and Libior Hudáček

    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  30. #430
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    WAW. This is really amazing.. Thanks for the picture, Jaaa.
    You´re welcome. Kinda sad to hear that there was only around 500 fans waiting for the Russian team at the airport and some of them left when the arrival of the plane was delayed. :(
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

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  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    You´re welcome. Kinda sad to hear that there was only around 500 fans waiting for the Russian team at the airport and some of them left when the arrival of the plane was delayed. :(
    It is amazing videos - i am sure some more people will get out and see the extraliga next season. A shame Satan and Hudacek will play in KHL.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa
    You´re welcome. Kinda sad to hear that there was only around 500 fans waiting for the Russian team at the airport and some of them left when the arrival of the plane was delayed. :(
    There were many people in the streets of all big cities in Russia. You can find them in Youtube.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaptajnen22 View Post
    It is amazing videos - i am sure some more people will get out and see the extraliga next season. A shame Satan and Hudacek will play in KHL.
    Ohhh man, please...what's wrong with KHL?
    I see its level higher and higher every year.

  33. #433
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protmn View Post
    Ohhh man, please...what's wrong with KHL?
    I see its level higher and higher every year.
    It's not the Extraliga, which will be hoping to grow its attendance with this result. Having a couple of the country's hockey heroes from the IHWC playing in the home league would have helped that goal as well.

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by protmn View Post
    There were many people in the streets of all big cities in Russia. You can find them in Youtube.

    Ohhh man, please...what's wrong with KHL?
    I see its level higher and higher every year.
    KHL is essentially a Russian dominated league and will remain such. Slovan's departure from Extraliga left Slovakian national championship without one of its powerhouses thus reducing the value of the competition itself as well as the other teams in the league.

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