View Poll Results: Predict the result of Day 8 Preliminary Round games

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  • SVK vs AUT, Slovakia will win

    11 91.67%
  • SVK vs AUT, Austria will win

    1 8.33%
  • SLO vs CZE, Slovenia will win

    3 25.00%
  • SLO vs CZE, Czech Republic will win

    9 75.00%
  • RUS vs FIN, Russia will win

    8 66.67%
  • RUS vs FIN, Finland will win

    4 33.33%
  • BLR vs CAN, Belarus will win

    0 0%
  • BLR vs CAN, Canada will win

    12 100.00%
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Thread: IHWC Discussion - Day 8 (SVK vs AUT, SLO vs CZE, RUS vs FIN, BLR vs CAN)

  1. #1
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Mens IHWC IHWC Discussion - Day 8 (SVK vs AUT, SLO vs CZE, RUS vs FIN, BLR vs CAN)

    Vote for each of the four results:

    15:15 H Helsinki Slovakia vs. Austria
    16:15 S Stockholm Slovenia vs. Czech Republic
    20:15 H Helsinki Russia vs. Finland
    20:15 S Stockholm Belarus vs. Canada

    Time Zone - CET

    Use this thread for the games of Day 8

    Post your predictions, comments, post-game reactions etc...
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  2. #2
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Well...I really dunno what to expect from this game...if Slovakia plays anything like last night then it's time to startworrying about relegation not quarterfinals...
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  3. #3
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    The Helsinki group looks really interesting with a lot of teams fighting both to avoid relegation and to reach the quarter finals.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  4. #4
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Come on Slovakia, what the hell. :(

  5. #5
    IHF Prospect amaeela's Avatar
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    Svk-aut 1-2 sog!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    Well...I really dunno what to expect from this game...if Slovakia plays anything like last night then it's time to startworrying about relegation not quarterfinals...
    Your fears were justified it seems...Austria wins 2-1 in a shoot out.
    The game winning goal was scored, ironically, by Thomas Vanek whose parents emigrated
    to Austria from Czechoslovakia and is of Slovak and Czech descent.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkovs View Post
    Come on Slovakia, what the hell. :(
    How come you know my words from yesterday?
    :D

    Good job by the Austrians, SVK was closer to the win but Starkbaum was strong and the lucky bounces on our side. In the end the Slovaks were worn out, funny to see that the Austrians dominated the OT even after the penalty was over. Vanek was more or less invisible during the game but this penalty shot shows why he is so important.

    Still 5 points might not be enough, The games between LAT, GER and FRA will tell. Even more points for AUT are highly unlikely ;-)

  8. #8
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Haha Rex. :) Watching that match, there was always a part of me cheering for you guys and then the majority of it was "crap, this just makes things harder for us." I agree though, Starkbaum played an excellent match.

    I see the match against the Germans as the biggest match, if we can get past them, that leaves the Germans with the Americans and the French on the final day. France on the last day will most certainly have a huge chance at making the Quarter-finals so I see them playing the match of their lives. This Group is so exciting, yet nerveraking, I dont like it, but I do.

    Im sure the Danes will start cheering for us to lose pretty soon.

  9. #9
    IHF Member WHawks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkovs View Post
    Im sure the Danes will start cheering for us to lose pretty soon.
    Why would we do that? Bad for our joint chances of getting the WC in 2017 if you get relegated. I'm sure the Germans, French and the Austrians are hoping you will lose the rest though :p

  10. #10
    IHF Member Nameless one's Avatar
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    I'm starting to be a little nervous. I don't know if Slovenians are this good or our team that bad or if they just took it as training or what. I'm not used to be happy when our guys score a goal into Slovenian net... I used to yawn back then. Slovakia also playing poorly last two matches and Russia lost to France? I don't believe that score at all. France can't beat Russia unless Russians were heavily drinking the other night or and that's my tip... there was some betting involved.

    How are you guys liking this WCH? Cause I'm not enjoying it at all so far.
    Have you tried turning it off and on again?
    Better now?

  11. #11
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHawks View Post
    Why would we do that? Bad for our joint chances of getting the WC in 2017 if you get relegated. I'm sure the Germans, French and the Austrians are hoping you will lose the rest though :p
    If we have the relegation formula correct, a win for us over the Germans push us up to 5pts or 6pts, the Germans at 4/5pts make you guys and Slovenia the overall worst countries. Looking at your schedule, Belarus is the real winnable match and the other two are more so-so. Of course, things in this tournament can change so fast.

    Again, I may very well have the formula wrong making my comment pretty pointless. :) But yeah, they would be really happy.

  12. #12
    IHF Member WHawks's Avatar
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    Nah you got it wrong Starkovs I believe, there's been a heated debate about it here as well due to terrible wording in the IIHF rule change regarding relegation for this season. The key word in their description that a lot of people have missed is bottom ranked teams.
    Here's how the ranking works: The two teams that finish 8th in each group will finished the tournament as 15th and 16th ranked, and get relegated...unless Belarus finish 8th in the Stockholm group, then the two teams placed 7th will be compared after the secondary ranking tie breaker, which is points, to determine who is the new 15th ranked instead of Belarus.
    The first thing used for ranking still remains group position, that will only change if Belarus finish 8th as explained above. And notice this also means that whoever finish 8th in your group (Helsinki) will in all scenarios ALWAYS relegate.

    Just like a team finishing 5th, but with more points than the team finishing 4th in the other group will still not get a quarterfinal.

    And also we will beat Belarus anyway :p

    So yeah you are still royally screwed if you dont pick up at least a win against France, but we got our fingers crossed for you!
    Last edited by WHawks; 10-05-2013 at 21:31.

  13. #13
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    In an .at forum someone posted the rules of how the overall ranking is created according to the positions in the group with the following tie breakers:

    1) points
    2) goal difference
    3) goals scored
    4) initial seeding

    this means, that the two 8th ranked teams will take the places 15 and 16 and so on. Thus, the relegated teams can't come from one group and the last team from Helsinki will certainly be relegated (and the last team from Stockholm almost surely as well as this is most likely not going to be BLR).

    This system makes sense I think. Ranking according to points without taking the group ranks in consideration would imho exagerate any bias in the strength of the groups (which is evident, Stockholm group is stronger imho).

  14. #14
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Ahh, cheers so much to both of you, it all is very clear now. Like you said, the IIHF wording is so terrible, all they had to do was pretty much word it like what either of you said and it would of been so much more clear. Thanks to you both. :)

    And I hope you do beat them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkovs View Post
    Ahh, cheers so much to both of you, it all is very clear now. Like you said, the IIHF wording is so terrible, all they had to do was pretty much word it like what either of you said and it would of been so much more clear. Thanks to you both. :)

    And I hope you do beat them.
    Absolutely agree. Without any further information the explanation of the relegation rules on iihf.com is not precise at all. And once I am into dissing iihf.com...it is absolutely ridiculous that they are not able to put the current standings of the groups somewhere nicely visible on the main page. No, standings have to be hidden in a pdf document on the stats page...

  16. #16
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless one View Post
    I'm starting to be a little nervous. I don't know if Slovenians are this good or our team that bad or if they just took it as training or what. I'm not used to be happy when our guys score a goal into Slovenian net... I used to yawn back then. Slovakia also playing poorly last two matches and Russia lost to France? I don't believe that score at all. France can't beat Russia unless Russians were heavily drinking the other night or and that's my tip... there was some betting involved.

    How are you guys liking this WCH? Cause I'm not enjoying it at all so far.
    As Team USA hasn't choked so far, knock on wood, it's been a pleasant surprise
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

  17. #17
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Finland held off Russia 3-2
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

  18. #18
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Not all that pleased with Russia, was extremely happy they lost yesterday but not today.

    On the bright side, Milchakov seems to be playing an outstanding match for Belarus.

    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Absolutely agree. Without any further information the explanation of the relegation rules on iihf.com is not precise at all. And once I am into dissing iihf.com...it is absolutely ridiculous that they are not able to put the current standings of the groups somewhere nicely visible on the main page. No, standings have to be hidden in a pdf document on the stats page...
    Yeah, that is rather annoying.

  19. #19
    IHF Member amoracing's Avatar
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    Fantastic battle by Finland against the Russians. They worked really hard the whole time, making Kovalchuk, Radulov & co. frustrated, out of balance and thus ineffective. Well-deserved victory, no question.

  20. #20
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    I think it's been a very exciting, unpredictable tournament so far.

    The "lower" teams are playing above their heads, and that's great to see.

    Well done by Austria & Finland today; Austria's win especially was, to my mind, a huge upset! On the other hand, fans of Slovakia and Russia should be gnashing their teeth.......not sure what the heck is happening with those two teams.

    Nameless One, the Czechs won in regulation.....can't ask for more than that. The Slovenes played as hard as they could, and hung around for a long time, but your team won in the end, in regulation, as expected.

  21. #21
    IHF Member Suomi95's Avatar
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    For sure and certainly the best TF game so far ! Lest's hope it goes on like this, cause till now was not that pleased with Leijona performances !!!! :-D

  22. #22
    IHF Prospect amaeela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    This system makes sense I think. Ranking according to points without taking the group ranks in consideration would imho exagerate any bias in the strength of the groups (which is evident, Stockholm group is stronger imho).
    Do you think Switzerland would have beaten Russia, USA, Finland, and Slovakia?

  23. #23
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaeela View Post
    Do you think Switzerland would have beaten Russia, USA, Finland, and Slovakia?
    Nothing shows they wouldnt have a realistic shot at beating all four of them.

  24. #24
    IHF Prospect amaeela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkovs View Post
    Nothing shows they wouldnt have a realistic shot at beating all four of them.
    We don't know. Your assumption of the two groups is, however, like if you'd compare which one of the planets Mars and Venus is better. Of course we all know that's Uranus ;-)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaeela View Post
    Do you think Switzerland would have beaten Russia, USA, Finland, and Slovakia?
    If Russia can lose to France, why in hell couldn't they lose to Switzerland?
    Ditto Slovakia, who lost to Austria.
    The Swiss are sound defensively, have very good goal tending and
    have some scoring punch up front...more than a match for the Finns and Yanks.
    Would like to see Canada get another crack at them, though

  26. #26
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatleysucks View Post
    If Russia can lose to France, why in hell couldn't they lose to Switzerland?
    Ditto Slovakia, who lost to Austria.
    The Swiss are sound defensively, have very good goal tending and
    have some scoring punch up front...more than a match for the Finns and Yanks.
    Would like to see Canada get another crack at them, though
    By this kind of logic, Slovakia won witha high score over France, that same France lost to Russia therefore Slovakia should crush Russia. Yeah, we all know that's happening. :D :D I'm not saying that the Swiss wouldn't have a chance to beat any of the mentioned teams, but at the same time noone can know that they would.

    It's all just a pressumption on your and everybody else's part that the one or the other group is stronger. There's absolutely no evidence to support. Actually the only evidence we will have are SF/medal games.
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  27. #27
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    this means, that the two 8th ranked teams will take the places 15 and 16 and so on. Thus, the relegated teams can't come from one group and the last team from Helsinki will certainly be relegated.
    Not true. In theory we could have this ending:

    Group H
    ----------
    7. Team A 2pts
    8. Team B 1pt

    Group S
    -----------
    7. Team C 3pts
    8. BLR 0pts

    In this case we have the following ranking

    13. Team C
    14. Team A
    15. Team B
    16. BLR

    Since Belarus cannot be relegated, both Team A and Team B from the Helsinki group is relegated.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Not true. In theory we could have this ending:

    Group H
    ----------
    7. Team A 2pts
    8. Team B 1pt

    Group S
    -----------
    7. Team C 3pts
    8. BLR 0pts

    In this case we have the following ranking

    13. Team C
    14. Team A
    15. Team B
    16. BLR

    Since Belarus cannot be relegated, both Team A and Team B from the Helsinki group is relegated.
    Absolutely right. My point was given the current situation that BLR won't be last in the S group (which is very likely).

  29. #29
    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amoracing View Post
    Fantastic battle by Finland against the Russians. They worked really hard the whole time, making Kovalchuk, Radulov & co. frustrated, out of balance and thus ineffective. Well-deserved victory, no question.
    Especially Kovalchuk lost it a couple of times. He got ejected for that suckerpunch on Pesonen but that was after Pesonen tried to hit him first (though Kovy threw about 20 cross checks at Pesonen before that). What was worse were Kovalchuk's repeated slashings in the third period. In particular the one where he hit someone (Lepist÷?) with his stick when the Finnish player was on the bench. This was outrageous but showed which team was in charge of their emotions. Here is a nice photo of the Finnish reaction. Still, I wish the Finnish federation will take this feat of Kovy to IIHF and he gets penalized for it (the refs missed this as they did so many other infractions in the 3rd period).

    EDIT: here is a video of the slashing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE8uOFKrad0
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  30. #30
    IHF Member andy's Avatar
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    I wouldn't blame Kovy afterall, that was just a release of emotions. Worse thing is Finland was a better team.. I'd impressed by 'em, especially Kantiola, Pesonen & Aaltonen. Waw..
    So, whatta we've got in 4ers? SUI-SVK, SWE-USA, FIN-CZE and(!) RUS-CAN (this one seems too early I'd say).

  31. #31
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    I wouldn't blame Kovy afterall, that was just a release of emotions. Worse thing is Finland was a better team.. I'd impressed by 'em, especially Kantiola, Pesonen & Aaltonen. Waw..
    So, whatta we've got in 4ers? SUI-SVK, SWE-USA, FIN-CZE and(!) RUS-CAN (this one seems too early I'd say).
    QF are played within the groups. And Slovakia is in a very far away place from QF right now.
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

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  32. #32
    IHF Prospect amaeela's Avatar
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    The quarter finals are played within the two groups: Helsinki 1st against Helsinki 4th and 2nd against 3rd, and the same way in Stockholm. The semis and medal games are played in Stockholm.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaaa View Post
    By this kind of logic, Slovakia won witha high score over France, that same France lost to Russia therefore Slovakia should crush Russia. Yeah, we all know that's happening. :D :D I'm not saying that the Swiss wouldn't have a chance to beat any of the mentioned teams, but at the same time noone can know that they would.

    It's all just a pressumption on your and everybody else's part that the one or the other group is stronger. There's absolutely no evidence to support. Actually the only evidence we will have are SF/medal games.
    I did not say one word about which group is stronger and I'm not presuming anything.
    From everything I have heard about this tournament is that the field is about as wide open
    as it has been in years.
    I only said I thought the Swiss were capable of beating any of those four teams, I was NOT saying
    that they would as a certain fact.
    My logic is that the Swiss have been playing well, have already beaten a couple of contenders
    (Canada and Sweden) while some teams in the other group, Russia and Slovakia especially, have struggled.
    The Swiss were especially impressive beating Canada, shutting down the Canadian's vaunted
    attack and surviving an eight round shoot out to win.
    Finland and the States would present a pretty strong challenge to the Swiss at this point as both
    have been on something of a roll since their respective losses.
    Honestly, I don't know why anyone is taking umbrage with what I said...I'm
    beginning to feel like Paul MacLean for crying out loud.

  34. #34
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatleysucks View Post
    I did not say one word about which group is stronger and I'm not presuming anything.
    From everything I have heard about this tournament is that the field is about as wide open
    as it has been in years.
    I only said I thought the Swiss were capable of beating any of those four teams, I was NOT saying
    that they would as a certain fact.
    My logic is that the Swiss have been playing well, have already beaten a couple of contenders
    (Canada and Sweden) while some teams in the other group, Russia and Slovakia especially, have struggled.
    The Swiss were especially impressive beating Canada, shutting down the Canadian's vaunted
    attack and surviving an eight round shoot out to win.
    Finland and the States would present a pretty strong challenge to the Swiss at this point as both
    have been on something of a roll since their respective losses.
    Honestly, I don't know why anyone is taking umbrage with what I said...I'm
    beginning to feel like Paul MacLean for crying out loud.
    Sorry, a mistake on my part for only quoting your post, my post was also in response to Rex claiming the Stockholm group to be stronger than the Helsinki group. And I am a bit confused by your "umbrage" statement, because Iam hardly umbraged merely discussing and I am entitled to disagree with you.

    Anyway, my main point was that the way either team have been playing against other teams is very little indication of how a game between those two teams would go. Especially when you have teams playing their best game and their worst game in a span of two days. Yes, France beat Russia, but how likely is it that Russia would play as they did against the French if they were to play against the Swiss?
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  35. #35
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    I confirm my previous statement, the Stockholm group is overall stronger. Especially in the mid-to bottom range.

  36. #36
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    I confirm my previous statement, the Stockholm group is overall stronger. Especially in the mid-to bottom range.
    In that case I disagree even more strongly. Actually I would be more likely to agree with you if you had said that the top of the Stockholm group is stronger as it has two teams that have been consistently good in Switzerland and Canada. Still you can't KNOW whether they would do as well in the other group, you can only assume. In the mid-to-bottom range you've got teams stealig points from each other all the time in both groups and watching the game that the 4th ranked Czech republic in the Stockholm group plays hurts ones eyes almost as much as watching the game that the currently ranked 4th in Helsinki group Slovakia plays. And actually the Helsinki group has France and Germany who have managed to get point/s from the top 3 ranked teams, none of the mid to bottom teams in the Stockholm have managed this so far.
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  37. #37
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Absolutely right. My point was given the current situation that BLR won't be last in the S group (which is very likely).
    Theory often allows for more interesting scenarios than practice... *smile* It does indeed not seem likely that Belarus will end up last in the group, and it is good that they qualify for next year's IHWC on their own.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

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