Kevin I will PM you as this Forum is too valuable to Free Speech to risk it being sued.
Kevin I will PM you as this Forum is too valuable to Free Speech to risk it being sued.
If you say so Marc.....
This is what I PM'd Kevin last night......
" Kevin at an IIHF Congress in Canada a few years prior to his second attempt to split us up, the English born head of the IIHF Legal Department tried the same maneuver. Then IIHA President Cliff Saunders armed with information that I gathered from the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Legal Council of a major sporting NGB here, argued and won the case to keep the two parts of this island united while playing hockey. We even had the offer of our Ambassador to Switzerland making a call in person to IIHF HQ. We also proved that this person falsified or at least misquoted certain information.
Willie Fay was aware this had taken place although he was not involved, and didn't ask about it then or since.
I still have the relevant paper work and communications should you still not believe me, or you could seek verification from Cliff. "
I provided enough clues that the gentleman can be identified without naming him. The same person once asked me in all seriousness while I was Team Ireland manager at a Division 3 World Championship Why anyone would want to play for Ireland when they could play for Team GB. Sadly I was extremely naive, new to the role, and aware of my position as a representative of my country. It is to my eternal shame that I didn't clock him one.
There's absolutely nothing in that post that would give rise to any legal liability for IHF. Frankly, it wouldn't give rise to liability for you either, at least not under New York law, which is the law that governs the use of this website.
Thanks Marc, with him being a legal eagle I was/am a bit reticent about naming names. He is in North America a lot of the time and it would be a lot more costly for me than him.
I just noticed you are in the Bay Shore area which suffered terrible storm damage if I am not mistaken. Here's hoping you all get back on your feet soon and last winter will just be a terrible memory and no more !!
Perhaps I should add that myself and three others have already received threatening letters from Lawyers for ex IIHA President William Fay and the issue is still ongoing. The cease and desist letters were in connection with posts both here and on Facebook. As far as I am concerned they are completely without foundation and were never challenged at the time. Still there was no point in being reckless even though what I had written was entirely truthful and they were claiming that he had somehow been threatened.
Just to keep you all updated on the issue of the Gag Order by Willy Fay, I have added below the communications between his solicitor who I have given the title Neil Y to protect his anonymity and myself who I have called X.....
I received your cease and desist letter this morning Your Ref: NM/RW dated 7/10/2013 and immediately rang your office to speak to you, but was told you were out and was assured I would hear back from you. Thus far I have heard nothing. Sadly your name was missing from the correspondence.
I request that you provide some detailed information on exactly what the wording was, that your client construed to be threatening. I am unaware of any threat that was issued and can certainly assure you that none was intended.
In fact, I would like you to provide the details of each and every post that your client considers to be unsubstantiated so that I can review it's merits or lack of same should it be necessary to take corrective action. I do believe that your client's time in office has been hugely detrimental to the administration of the sport of Ice Hockey on the island of Ireland and am not alone in that belief. I am assured that there remains here some measure of freedom of speech and feel this must be weighed up against your clients self serving self opinion.
I must also point out that your client has always been fully aware, and was again, only recently, personally invited by me to refute, rebut or even respond to any point that I had made, and so far he has failed to do so. This is the first indication that I have had that my comments might be considered unreliable.
Mr. Fay has, in the past, been caught in the unexplained possession of the private and personal emails of others in this sporting family. He has misrepresented the proceedings of a past Annual General Meeting to lead one to conclude that a mass resignation was in fact a mass sacking. He has reported a serving member of the Gardai to his superiors on similar claims to those that you are making against me. He has, it is believed, sought the expulsion of IIHA members based on their opposition to his management. He is in contravention of many of the rules of company law. Most of these lapses have gone unreported or have had a blind eye turned, due to the serious damage they would do to the good name of the Association.
I am aware that even the worst of criminals is entitled to representation but if your client has any consideration at all for the reputation of, and respect for, the Irish Ice Hockey Association, I would respectfully ask, that you request that your client reconsiders his instructions to you.
I would be delighted to discuss any or all of these points with you by mutually agreed appointment at your earliest convenience.
I can confirm safe receipt of your email dated the*15th*inst.* I can confirm that I am out of the office for the coming days and will attend to the contents of same upon my return.
Thank you for your belated reply. Unfortunately it adds nothing to the substance of the argument. I am considering whether or not to make public this threat by Mr. Fay, made through your office. My concern at this time, and the reason for my hesitation is how it will reflect on the Association and it's current leadership.
I am more than satisfied that any posts that I have made are
1. Substantiated and substantial.
2. Clearly show that your client was out of his depth.
3. Where opinion was given it was not refuted by your client despite many opportunities and invitations to do so.
4.Freedom of speech would be a clear loser should this threat go uncontested.
Therefore you should be aware that while I am still prepared to consider reviewing and re-editing my posts if you can point out the errors of my ways I will not be diverted from a course of shining a light on the bullying and abuses that have surrounded that particular gentleman for the last few years.
I honestly need to hear something more from you and your client before close of business today to ensure that this business does not continue to spiral out of proportion.
I must add that I do have concerns about Data Protection and Conflict of Interest in this matter.
Hoping you personally have good news in the next few hours,
I appreciate your position however due to my present circumstances I am not in a position to progress the matter with my Client.
I can however confirm that Mr. Fay is my Client and I am the only person dealing with the matter. Accordingly no further action will be taken by our offices until such time that I return to the office. In addition I can confirm that our offices would not take any further action without the prior addressing of your correspondence.
I trust this is to your satisfaction, at least for the time being.* I will touch base upon my return. No further action will be undertaken prior to this.
First of all, I hope all is going well with the new arrival and that both mother and child are doing well!
You might remember it's been a while since you contacted myself and three others seeking to restrain us from commenting on IIHA ex-president William Fay. We believe his conduct in office left much to be desired and that it is in the interest of the sport that we discuss some of what has gone on. I can assure you however that there is, and never was any risk of a threat to either he or his family.
I look forward to discussing this matter with you personally whenever the opportunity arises and to putting your mind at rest. As you canimagine I do not welcome this hanging over me and look forward to a swift resolution.
Many thanks for your well wishes. I can confirm that mother and daughter are doing very well. I have not had an opportunity to catch up on all of my work to date however I can confirm that I have spoken to my Client with regard to your correspondence and I await his response. Once I am in receipt of same I will be in further contact.
I'm happy to hear the good news about the family.
Thanks for getting back to me. Along with myself, those I have spoken to accept the validity of my comments and have told me I have grounds for my posts. As I have said before, your client has had ample opportunity to deny or disprove all or any of what I have said but has never done so. The sites I have used will accept his comments as freely as they will mine, so I can not accept the responsibility for his unwillingness to take issue with opinion that I know to be valid, truthful and well intentioned. Nor do I feel he has the right to use you to gag myself and the other three who have been contacted, and to consider himself above and beyond valid criticism.
I will not waste your time now by listing a few of your clients shortcomings and his many skirtings of the law. Suffice to say he would not walk away from any legal proceedings with his integrity (what is left of it) intact.
If I may be so bold, may I suggest to your client that, as a scare tactic, this has been less than effective and to pursue it further would be a waste of his money and both yours and my time.
Thanks again for your reply Neil and I look forward to your response, especially, if you can make your client see reason.
My final communication was sent earlier today 7/12/13
As you will be aware I have been issued with a cease and desist letter from you, on behalf of Mr William Fay. You will also be aware I have contacted your office on up to ten occasions since then, seeking detail from your client clarifying on what basis he feels he can claim to have been threatened and/or defamed. I have, as yet, not managed to speak to you or had contact back from your office other than vague messages assuring that a reply would be forthcoming.
Tomorrow 7/12/13 - 2 months will have passed since the letter was issued and I feel that, at this stage, if your client was able to provide instance of threat or defamation it would have been forthcoming. I am, therefore, writing to inform you that I no longer feel that I have any need or obligation to restrain myself from expressing my opinion, critical or otherwise, of Mr. Fay's actions as his claims which had no credence in the first place and even less now that he has shied away from the provision of examples of injury.
I would welcome any opportunity to debate with your client on any issue where he feels I have been less than fair, and I am aware that your involvement in this has been in a purely professional capacity and that everyone, even the least savoury amongst us, is entitled to benefit from your expertise.
Merry Christmas Everyone ......With one small exception !!
Just saw a post on Facebook 45 mins. ago showing a picture of an article from the local paper which makes this post more credible. Hopefully the first positive news we have had in ages here. DkIT stands for Dundalk Institute of Technology and they hope to be able to offer more courses (in Phys. Ed.)with the acquisition of the rink and the building next door (JJB) which houses, along with the list below, steam rooms and a jacuzzi.
Long story short- DkIT took over JJB and Ice Dome in Dundalk and will be fully operational (gym, swimming pool, indoor football pitches and ICE RINK) for new academic year, September 2014
View 2 more comments
Alan Troy Fantastic news!
13 hours ago · Like
Alan Fleming Great news hope all goes well.
45 minutes ago via mobile
Last edited by Mick; 03-01-2014 at 16:30.
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 6:17 PM, I wrote in an email to the firm of solicitors who communicated on behalf of William Fay....
I acknowledge receipt of your last letter on Saturday 21/12/13 and ask that you please excuse the rather unusual opening to this letter but you have somehow neglected to formally identify just who it is exactly in your office that I am corresponding with.
Just as unusually however, you have failed to provide the specifics of what it is that your client has taken issue with. How am I ever supposed to review what your client finds contentious if you fail to identify the chapter and verse of that which he would like to see changed.
I forcefully decline to accept the notion that I have at any time threatened Mr. Fay, indeed I find your attempts to silence a concerned spectator and commentator far more threatening, and insist that you desist from using that term- “threatening” (which you have thrown around on more than one occasion) without ever attempting to prove it's veracity.
I am totally unaware of any claims that I have have made against the IIHF, the Olympic Council, The Federation of Irish Sport or the Sports Council, and fail to see what relevance these organisations have in this matter or what you expect me to say to them. I furthermore doubt that you have been retained by any of those august bodies to defend them, and as a consequence consider that section of your letter to be a malicious distraction intended as a scare tactic and an attempt to add gravitas to an otherwise shoddy attempt to gag the honest opinion of one who was attempting to avert the sinking of a poorly navigated and poorly maintained vessel, rather than one who was trying to besmirch the legacy of the mariner intent on, or neglectful of, driving her onto the rocks. Having waited two and a half months for a reply from you, it is totally unreasonable to expect immediate action from me, on a notification which contains, other than general bluster, none of details that I have repeatedly requested in good faith. How am I to divine, prey tell, just what he finds offensive, when you have failed, despite many unreturned telephone calls to your office to provide any indication of what I am to search for or amend. Sadly your letter was delivered at the weekend, just one working day before the holidays, so, without your clarification, I am neither in a position to, nor have any inclination to, give over my Christmas to such a wasteful and pointless exercise in futility, when I know that without detailed knowledge of what he claims to find offensive whatever I produce will inevitably serve no purpose. Without the requested information your latest communication can have little worth other than it's intimidatory and nuisance value. Your fourteen day ultimatum I must conclude is therefore beyond compliance.
Perhaps when you do get back to me with the requested information, which might perhaps provide a fleeting glimpse of the threats and abuse you refer to, yet decline to specify, you might also explain why your client has, until this point, not sought to challenge or even communicate his dissatisfaction, with anything that I have written, despite many requests to hear his side of the story. I attended many IIHA meetings, when not prevented from doing so, and at no time did Mr. Fay make any reference to displeasure about anything I posted. Similarly he has never attempted in the past to use the same Fora to challenge, cry foul or debate as was his right and which would be my own chosen initial option were I to take umbrage at something I did not agree with. I find it depressing that his first choice was to seek recourse to legal action, and also that an admirable firm such as yours has allowed itself to be used by someone intent on shackling free speech, someone who is not above using his position as a sports Referee-In-Chief to try to to settle old vendettas, and someone who has been proven to be in the unauthorised possession electronic mail of colleagues, and on who's stewardship the jury are still out. I can tell you now that one site I frequented came to be used for inter-communication between members of a committee which was set up to provide regime change at the IIHA and I can confirm that I was not a founder member of either the committee or the page. I do know that your client was both aware of and participated in the conversations on that page back in April/May and yet he never saw fit to bring up previous comments of mine or anyone else.
To conclude, you threaten legal proceeding for nuisance when your client failed to register any objection during the many meetings we have both attended simultaneously, or on other occasions when there was ample opportunity for a quiet word.
You threaten proceedings for damage without ever saying how he was damaged and you threaten proceedings for threats that were never made.
I am happy that it would be relatively easy produce a parade of IIHA members who would be happy to attest that such was his standing in their eyes that it would be rather difficult to defame him. However if defamation, harassment or damage to your client had been my objective, surely I would have sought out a much larger audience such as national newspapers or phone-in radio shows rather than sport-specific websites used only by those with a focused interest in hockey and a concern for the calibre of person that was representing them.
Finally perhaps you can explain how someone who retires from a position can suddenly feel harassed in retrospect when no mention was made of same perceived harassment while he was in office.
I am at all times anxious and open to hearing your clients point of view and once again extend an invitation to your client to enter into correspondence publicly so the members of the IIHA can decide who or what to believe on a given subject.
May I wish you and yours a happy, peaceful and relaxed Christmas, as will me and mine, safe in the knowledge that we have done no one an injustice and that in due course, when all is revealed, claims of defamation will be seen to be the joke I know them to be.
And on January 14 2014 this email was sent.....
Dear Y,(Firm of Solicitors),
As the Christmas holidays are over and done with for another year, it is time I replied to you with regard to the letter below and the "cease and desist" letters which I received from you last year. Below is the publicly stated opinion of the controllers of the website on which I regularly commented on the state of the sport of Ice Hockey in this country, and which were not solely devoted to discussing your clients performance of his duties ....
"There's absolutely nothing in that post that would give rise to any legal liability for IHF. Frankly, it wouldn't give rise to liability for you either, at least not under New York law, which is the law that governs the use of this website."
To the best of my knowledge the controllers have never been approached, nor have they themselves ever felt the need, to request the amendment of even a single word that I have posted on that site. Therefore I believe I have their tacit acceptance of the points I have made, and their opinion that my comments although critical were not malicious.
I also believe that, if the singular priority of your client is the protection of his reputation, "speed of removal" would be his greatest concern. Since receiving your letter dated 7/10/13 the multiple occasions on which I agreed to consider the editing of my posts should they be identified as erroneous, have gone unanswered, and, I am still at a loss to know what your client considers to be defamatory but can do nothing to deal with your client's concerns without your input. I am left to conclude so, that speed of removal cannot be deemed to be your client's top priority, and that in fact this is just another in a long line of attempts to silence outspoken critics.
Really Gentlemen, this farce has gone on long enough and I must advise you that I will not be replying to any further communication from you that does not contain the submission of all and every occasion on which your client considers himself or others to have been defamed. If your client is unwilling to do this, then I can but look forward to my day in court and assure you that my defense will be vigorous, my criticism scathing, revelatory and eloquent, and in the opinion of all who are in possession of the full facts, the eventual outcome totally assured.
Last edited by Mick; 14-01-2014 at 21:20.
This is one of the most entertaining reads we have ever had here. Thanks Mick! And hopefully Irish hockey will be moving forward again soon with the re-opening of the rink.
You've been heard Mick, repeatedly. Time to look forward...as the title of this thread would suggest.
Hi Rex it is perhaps more entertaining when you are not the one under threat of court proceedings.
I fail to see why my family should have to scrimp to allow me to consult with an attorney, as you call them in the US., so everything I have replied is without anyone else's input, which is some responsibility,and I just hope it is compelling enough an argument to make the legal eagles think twice. Your support and hopefully well wishes are really welcome so thank you. I have not posted what I posted nor am I defending those posts to revisit old history it is more with a view to ensuring that the lessons of previous mistakes might be learned and that errors of the previous administration will never again be repeated.
A thought just occurred,.........God I hope your enjoyment is not down to my naivety or some silly misunderstanding on my part ????
By saying entertaining I do neither refer to the dire times Irish hockey has gone through nor the hazzels you are exposed to personally. What entertains me (the term is not well chosen in this respect though I admit) is being able to follow the struggle to rebuild the sport in your country so closely (I was resp. still am involved in my sport in Austria where analogous problems of bad governance impede development so ı know what you are up to). Furthermore, I do enjoy reading your correspondence with X because it is very well written on your behalf and is, for the non-native speaker I am, very educating concerning the English language.
Thanks again Rex for your kind words, it is good to know you were at least laughing with me rather than laughing at me.
Puerto Rico stands beside you %100 --Our plight also suffers at the hands of Lackies,Halfwits and the truly crooked.I consider your piece my personal Magna Carta to crib and quote at will! Logic and perseverance will be our guideposts.
"Ice is civilization" Paul Theroux-Mosquito Coast
Wow kind words indeed and inspiring too. Thanks for the lift you folks have given me.
Irish Ice Hockey Association · 1,225 like this
about an hour ago ·
Important Notice - Extraordinary General Meeting
The Directors of the IIHA have called this Extraordinary General Meeting in accordance with section 11 of the Memorandum and Articles of this Association.
The Extraordinary General Meeting will be held at
Irish Sport HQ, National Sports Campus, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15.
on Saturday the 15th day of February 2014 at 2pm.
The meeting shall be convened at 2:30pm sharp.
All IIHA members are welcome. Photo Identification will be needed for all those wishing to vote that are entitled to vote. Acceptable forms of identification are Passport, Driving License, and Garda Age Card. Any questions in relation to other forms of ID please contact the IIHA office or e-mail email@example.com before the EGM takes place.
The Purpose for this Extraordinary General Meeting is to put forward to the members of the association, a motion of no confidence in Gary Harvey as Treasurer and Barry O’Hanrahan as Vice President.
Extraordinary General Meeting - Irish Ice Hockey Association
The Directors of the IIHA have called this Extraordinary General Meeting in accordance with section 11 of the Memorandum and Articles of this Association.
Just to keep you all updated...........
No developments on the rink situation, we remain hopeful that Dundalk may yet have a positive outcome having been bought out of receivership by the Dundalk Institute of Technology. (DkIT)
No further communications from/to the firm of solicitors to/from myself or the other lads who were sent cease and desist letters.
The two gents named above by the IIHA were an inheritance from the previous administration so I am seeing this as belated justification and confirmation that the many posts I made about errors, misjudgments and irrational decisions made at that time are now being seen as valid and upheld, and, should never have been the basis for the allegations of malice contained in the afore mentioned solicitors letters.
Hope there is better news for hockey in Ireland, soon.
Thanks Geoff. Keep dry and dredge those rivers !!
I was not able to attend the EGM and no official minutes have been posted so far. However I believe both the Treasurer and VP were excommunicated 18-1 and 19-0 respectively.I understand the venue was cancelled by someone claiming to be an Exec. but luckily the plot was discovered and the event went ahead. It is rumoured that these two plus one other executive from the last regime have questions to answer concerning mis-appropriation of funds. Threats and counter allegations were made allegedly yet none of those who were in jeopardy turned up.
It looks like bit by bit the culture I was trying to discuss and correct is being weeded out, and the claims that I made are being seen as justified.
I'm a hockey fan of Irish descent who's been trying to figure out what's been going on with the IIHA and stuff for a while now. I was interested in potentially writing a blog post/article about it. Any chance we could exchange an email or two? I'm a new user, can't send PMs.
Yes BMW happy to help and PM'd you.
Seems that ice hockey in Ireland still lives on!
Some Irish teams are playing in Cross Border Cup 2016/2017 which is organized by Irish Ice Hockey Association.
Games are played in Dundonald Ice Bowl in Belfast. There are teams from Ireland and Norther Ireland.
Teams are: Flying Ducks Dublin, NI Tridents Green and NI Tridents White, Dundalk Warriors, KIlkenny Storm, Celtic Clovers A and B teams, Latvian Hawks and Belfast Foxes.
Any scores or video from this event?
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