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Thread: Champions Hockey League 2014

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    IHF Member bordshockeypampen's Avatar
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    Champions Hockey League 2014

    IIHF and European Trophy are announcing the name Champions Hockey League and the 26 founding clubs for next year's tournament.

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    what a joke! It is Champions Hockey League from 2008, even bigger joke! Why so many participants, Allsvenskan team in CHAMPIONS League??? No Russia? No Jokerit? This will fail sooner than later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    what a joke! It is Champions Hockey League from 2008, even bigger joke! Why so many participants, Allsvenskan team in CHAMPIONS League??? No Russia? No Jokerit? This will fail sooner than later.
    Don't you want to give it a chance first? To me it sounds like the right next step towards a legitimate European Championship. However I agree with your point, that right now the seeding is problematic. There is a gap between their claim and what it is.

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milbi View Post
    Don't you want to give it a chance first? To me it sounds like the right next step towards a legitimate European Championship. However I agree with your point, that right now the seeding is problematic. There is a gap between their claim and what it is.
    European Trophy is here for a few yrs, so what chance?
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    IHF Member bordshockeypampen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    what a joke! It is Champions Hockey League from 2008, even bigger joke! Why so many participants, Allsvenskan team in CHAMPIONS League??? No Russia? No Jokerit? This will fail sooner than later.
    The problem with CHL 2008 was that it was based on volatile Russian money.
    This time CHL is backed by 26 clubs, of which most are among the top clubs in Europe, and by 6 of the 7 top leagues in Europe.

    In rsport.ru, Rene Fasel says that KHL didn’t want to join CHL because of different reasons, one being the issue of Jokerit's participation.

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordshockeypampen View Post
    The problem with CHL 2008 was that it was based on volatile Russian money.
    This time CHL is backed by 26 clubs, of which most are among the top clubs in Europe, and by 6 of the 7 top leagues in Europe.

    In rsport.ru, Rene Fasel says that KHL didn’t want to join CHL because of different reasons, one being the issue of Jokerit's participation.
    in 2008 CHL had russian money, now has NO money. They dont have sponsors yet, Szemberg said !!!
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    IHF Member bordshockeypampen's Avatar
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    The CHL chairman Anders Ternbom says to Sveriges Radio that Djurgården will have to sell their shares if they don't advance to SHL by the end of this season.

    He also says that the only weakness in the new European concept is that the KHL does not take part the first year, but he also argues that the interest from KHL is big, so there are great expectations to get full participation of KHL from the second year. Already in the first year, interested KHL clubs might get a wild card into the tournament.

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    There is some information best VHL clubs could participate instead of KHL

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    Any information or ideas why CHL didn't allow Jokerit participate? This looks very much silly and unfair. Are they against Jokerit as such or against all foreign clubs participating in KHL?

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    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    I do not think it unfair. JOKERIT will be a KHL team. KHL is not in CHL.

    Inspite of all the obstacles. A good start. I am not going to burry this move before it starts. Long live the CHL.

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    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    I am curious about the WILD CARD distribution and system.

    Apart from wishes and speculation does anybody have SOURCES?

    Also in case of: The winner of qual. and the champion are founding members does it give automatic
    promotion to 2nds to fill the 6 spots for instance for NLA or is NLA in that ex. starting with 4 teams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibizajp View Post
    I do not think it unfair. JOKERIT will be a KHL team. KHL is not in CHL.
    As said in IIHF article CHL would like KHL clubs participating. But it looks they were against Jokerit as one of the KHL teams participating in CHL... that certainly looks unfair!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JankS View Post
    As said in IIHF article CHL would like KHL clubs participating. But it looks they were against Jokerit as one of the KHL teams participating in CHL... that certainly looks unfair!
    Or maybe Jokerit was against participating? Or KHL blocked them from participating? Why do you assume it was the other clubs blocking them from taking part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Helix- View Post
    Or maybe Jokerit was against participating? Or KHL blocked them from participating? Why do you assume it was the other clubs blocking them from taking part?
    No, here http://en.khl.ru/news/2013/12/9/25852.html and bit more information in russian version - it's said that CHL didn't agree to accept Jokerit's participation...

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    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    It says, in English version at least, that there was problems with Jokerit participation in 2014/15
    that's all.
    The day KHL club are accepted J. could participate (if they qualify of course).

    Jokerit choose its future in KHL. Before seeing them in CHL I definitely prefer KHL clubs
    from other countries like RIGA,MINSK,SLOVAN. (and Russian clubs of course)

    In 2014 there will be 6+2 Finnish teams thats plenty enough to represent Liiga.
    This is the problable reason why the CHL does not want them per se.

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Members from the principal stakeholders from the six countries form the Champions Hockey League board, which is the executive body of the league:

    Representing the Clubs:
    Anders Ternbom, SWE, chairman
    Petr Briza, CZE
    Timo Everi, FIN
    Peter John Lee, GER
    Peter Zahner, SUI
    Rupert Zamorsky, AUT

    The Leagues:
    Christian Feichtinger, AUT
    Gernot Tripcke, GER

    The IIHF:
    Kalervo Kummola, FIN
    Does anybody know what clubs/feds they represent? I know Briza is from Sparta Prague.
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    Rupert Zamorsky represents Red Bull (Salzburg and Munich I suppose). Christian Feichtinger is GM of EBEL and secretary general of Hockey Europe.

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    thx
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    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    Peter Zahner ist CEO of ZSC Lions

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    Timo Everi is the Chair of the Board @ HIFK.

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    Anyways I believe the "representing the clubs" section of the executive body = the European Trophy board members.

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    Would like to see potential access for all of Europe maybe based on say continental cup performance.

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    IHF Member Laho's Avatar
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    Here's the deal with this Jokerit and KHL issue:

    There's a lot of bad blood among Finnish club officials over the Jokerit KHL transfer, and they effectively blocked Jokerit from claiming a stake in the new competition. There was really no solid and objective reasoning for it - it was all petty and personal. The Finnish stakeholders were willing to welcome any other KHL club to the CHL, but not Jokerit.

    Upon hearing this, the KHL bigwigs practically told them, "FTS, if you don't want to play with one of ours, we're all out. Thxbye and let's discuss this again when you're run by people who wear pants instead of diapers."

    Jokerit is not completely innocent here, their chairman Harkimo did not handle the move in a wholly gentlemanly manner. But it's still incredible how far other Finnish stakeholders were willing to go in diminishing the credibility of the new competition simply because of hurt pride.
    Last edited by Laho; 11-12-2013 at 10:12.
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    Thanks Laho for detailed information.
    It's very bad start for new CHL to come with such CHL board decisions without objective reasoning. Surprisingly this time KHL demostrated clear and solid position regarding this issue. Now it looks new CHL is very far from pure sport result principles (best European hockey league clubs playing) - as member clubs will comprise majority of new competition irrespective of their results in domestic competition and now additionally comes this case with Jokerit which means CHL in future can deny participation of any hockey club (even league champions) just based on decision of board memebers because they don't like this particular club.

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    IHF Member Laho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JankS View Post
    Thanks Laho for detailed information.
    It's very bad start for new CHL to come with such CHL board decisions without objective reasoning. Surprisingly this time KHL demostrated clear and solid position regarding this issue. Now it looks new CHL is very far from pure sport result principles (best European hockey league clubs playing) - as member clubs will comprise majority of new competition irrespective of their results in domestic competition and now additionally comes this case with Jokerit which means CHL in future can deny participation of any hockey club (even league champions) just based on decision of board memebers because they don't like this particular club.
    Any time.

    I don't know if the CHL were willing to bend their own rules to block a club that has a right to participate by the right of being a league champion. This falling out happened simply because Jokerit wanted to buy one of the shares reserved for KHL clubs, and the Finnish stakeholders decided that they won't allow that. And by the way the new league is set up, that was in their right, I guess. So in that sense no principle was violated. It's the reasons behind it that don't really stand the light of day.

    If Jokerit by some chance manages to win Liiga this season or Gagarin Cup in the future, the issue of their participation is back on the table - granted that the KHL is interested to get in at a later date, that is. Really can't help but give a small kudos to them, it was a surprising act of solidarity.
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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Did Anders Ternbom work in hockey before joining this board?
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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laho View Post
    Here's the deal with this Jokerit and KHL issue:

    There's a lot of bad blood among Finnish club officials over the Jokerit KHL transfer, and they effectively blocked Jokerit from claiming a stake in the new competition. There was really no solid and objective reasoning for it - it was all petty and personal. The Finnish stakeholders were willing to welcome any other KHL club to the CHL, but not Jokerit.

    Upon hearing this, the KHL bigwigs practically told them, "FTS, if you don't want to play with one of ours, we're all out. Thxbye and let's discuss this again when you're run by people who wear pants instead of diapers."

    Jokerit is not completely innocent here, their chairman Harkimo did not handle the move in a wholly gentlemanly manner. But it's still incredible how far other Finnish stakeholders were willing to go in diminishing the credibility of the new competition simply because of hurt pride.
    Interesting, could you send a link for article?
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    IHF Member Laho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    Interesting, could you send a link for article?
    No single article, simply looked at various sources and asked around a little. The thing is, the officials from multiple Finnish clubs are really p***ed at Harkimo for the way he handled the KHL move. Given how it was specifically them who shot down Jokerit's participation, it's obvious payback.

    But in case you need something solid, just read the thing that was already posted here. It's all there between the lines: http://en.khl.ru/news/2013/12/9/25852.html
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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Thx Laho, I follow this development closely, but I am not able to read finnish.. just was curious what finnish managers said about CHL and no Jokerit.


    Blocking KHL/Jokerit is stupid from long term point of view. KHL does not need to participate in CHL, there is nothing to gain from it. On the other hand CHL needs Russia/KHL in competition to lure sponsors, fans. Like it or not, KHL is attractive component in euro hockey. Everyone would come to see Kovalchuk on ice or Radulov. Will fans/sponsors come to see some slovak or so team instead of SKA? I doubt.

    Russians dont forget history... blocking Jokerit means that CHL declared "war" to KHL. Arena Events (co-owner of Jokerit) is in talks with unnamed german club about buying it (Jokerit scenario), Rotenberg said in september. So, german club might to join KHL and then others... you will see it. CHL will be there for a few yrs but big fishes will see that it is not that good, so will talk to KHL... if not CHL members, then there are Koln, Geneve, Hamburg etc - also big clubs.
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    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    Did Anders Ternbom work in hockey before joining this board?
    He joined HUB (HockeyUtvecklingsBolaget, "The Hockey Development Company") as CEO in 2010 after Håkan Loob returned to Färjestad. In one article I read he is also listed as president of EICC AG (European Ice Hockey Club Competion AG).

    It seems that he was recruited to HUB from the business world, he was previously CEO of Swedish spice manufacturer Santa Maria AB.
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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    thx Bennison, why not Loob anymore? Did not he want to do this job? I would not change Loob for someone who had not work in hockey before .. and it seems his previous job was not big bussiness (a la Gazprom). You need that kind of business if you want to create something big...

    btw, what is your opinion about CHL? Will it be sucessfull now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JankS View Post
    Thanks Laho for detailed information.
    It's very bad start for new CHL to come with such CHL board decisions without objective reasoning. Surprisingly this time KHL demostrated clear and solid position regarding this issue. Now it looks new CHL is very far from pure sport result principles (best European hockey league clubs playing) - as member clubs will comprise majority of new competition irrespective of their results in domestic competition and now additionally comes this case with Jokerit which means CHL in future can deny participation of any hockey club (even league champions) just based on decision of board memebers because they don't like this particular club.
    I don't think it's that big of a deal really. None of these "founding clubs" earned their spots in the CHL in any way so the fact that a club was left out really shouldn't matter. Now, if Jokerit qualifies for the competition through their play on the ice, it would be a whole different story. I don't think the CHL would be able to legitimize leaving out a league champion. I have absolutely no problem with them leaving out a club from their "founding member" automatic qualifiers as they are pretty random anyway.

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    Ok, thanks for clarification - so the question was about KHL clubs as share owners in CHL. That's of course different story then. So the initial formula 26+14 will change if KHL enters. Does that mean that KHL will receive also their league share as potential owner of CHL if they decide to participate?

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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    There is no reason why should KHL join it... if all KHL conditions are fullfilled then ok...
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    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Loob wanted to go back to Färjestad and didn't feel that he could bring so much more to the HUB initiative. It was felt that someone with more business experience was needed. Santa Maria has a turnover of around SEK 2 billion (EUR 200 million) so it's not that small. Not Gazprom though... *smile*

    I liked the old CHL format better, I oppose the plan to let 26 out of 40 places go to fixed clubs. That does not sound so much "Champion's League" to me. I generally like the idea of a league parallel to national leagues more than a full season European League.

    I couldn't really care less if KHL is in or out, I am as interested in seeing Zug or Basel as I would be Chelyabinsk or Yaroslavl.
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    IHF Member Laho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Helix- View Post
    I don't think it's that big of a deal really. None of these "founding clubs" earned their spots in the CHL in any way so the fact that a club was left out really shouldn't matter. Now, if Jokerit qualifies for the competition through their play on the ice, it would be a whole different story. I don't think the CHL would be able to legitimize leaving out a league champion. I have absolutely no problem with them leaving out a club from their "founding member" automatic qualifiers as they are pretty random anyway.
    This, pretty much. It's certainly within the founders' rights to decide who gets to cash in for an automatic berth and who doesn't. It's not about Jokerit being principally wronged when they refused to take their money, but someone might question their motives for said refusal - which in turn can lead to some uncomfortable questions about the credibility of this new competition.

    If you have a club with questionable on-ice reputation, like, say, HC Vityaz, you could see why they'd refuse to grant them entry. But Jokerit is mostly spotless in that sense, they simply wanted to get back at Harkimo who made them look like fools earlier. Even if this one gets a pass, you can't help but wonder if they'll make some truly bad call later on by allowing personal issues to cloud their judgment again.
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    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Loob wanted to go back to Färjestad and didn't feel that he could bring so much more to the HUB initiative. It was felt that someone with more business experience was needed. Santa Maria has a turnover of around SEK 2 billion (EUR 200 million) so it's not that small. Not Gazprom though... *smile*

    I liked the old CHL format better, I oppose the plan to let 26 out of 40 places go to fixed clubs. That does not sound so much "Champion's League" to me. I generally like the idea of a league parallel to national leagues more than a full season European League.

    I couldn't really care less if KHL is in or out, I am as interested in seeing Zug or Basel as I would be Chelyabinsk or Yaroslavl.
    Thx. You need strong financial backround if you want create big hockey league in Europe. You know, there are big NHL and now KHL as well. Your league, ECC/CHL, needs to get tv/sponsorship deals, so you need high caliber players from NHL/KHL. Reality is not like that for CHL. As I said, you need business guys who have experiance with Gazprom-like companies. Nobody in ECC has that experience.

    I dislike this CHL format as well and name is silly as well, CHL=canadian hockey league for global sponsors involved in hockey.


    Quote Originally Posted by Laho View Post
    This, pretty much. It's certainly within the founders' rights to decide who gets to cash in for an automatic berth and who doesn't. It's not about Jokerit being principally wronged when they refused to take their money, but someone might question their motives for said refusal - which in turn can lead to some uncomfortable questions about the credibility of this new competition.

    If you have a club with questionable on-ice reputation, like, say, HC Vityaz, you could see why they'd refuse to grant them entry. But Jokerit is mostly spotless in that sense, they simply wanted to get back at Harkimo who made them look like fools earlier. Even if this one gets a pass, you can't help but wonder if they'll make some truly bad call later on by allowing personal issues to cloud their judgment again.
    Vityaz? There is no such Vityaz anymore. So I dont understand your argument. KHL is strong in Europe, but has another vision than this crappy CHL. Parallel euro hockey league will never work. You need money for that and there are no money in ECC/CHL...

    I recommend both to read Zuagg interview, clever man. I can provide you english version, write me PM if you want it. http://webhokej24.sk/rusko/khl-rozho...i-liga-ako-khl
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  38. #38
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    KHL is strong in Europe, but has another vision than this crappy CHL.
    Without financing the new CHL is at risk of going bust just like the last attempt. But I think there is an interest for pan-european hockey now that wasn't there 5 years ago. But to most Swedish hockey fans that is not directed at KHL, my feeling is that just the promise of a CHL next year has already garnered more interest in the fan base than the KHL season. KHL is still (although rather inaccurate by now) seen as a Russian league with Russian teams and Russian interests.

    KHL has seen growing interest in Sweden as well, but it is from low numbers and not in the general public, mostly with die-hard fans who follow specific Swedish players. CHL on the other hand seems to interest more Joe Average Fan.
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  39. #39
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    It is not suprising that KHL is not so popular in Sweden. Yes, CHL can be popular among fans, CHL 2008 was also popular, right? All depends on money... like it or not. KHL has money and interest to accept top euro clubs, Germany, Swiss, Sweden. There is an interest from german, suiss clubs about joining KHL. Dont know about Sweden. Did CHL start searching money/sponsors?? I heard something about 10M euro for next 3 yrs (Briza said)... that is how much money for every club (40)? Penny. They need money pool which guarantee lets say at least 5-10M euro to every club. KHL can offer it. KHL does not share revenue now, but will in future. Kochervin, vicepresident, said in september that KHL knows about requirements of euro clubs (revenue sharing etc) and will fulfill them within 3 yrs. Coincidence - guaranteed spots in CHL for 3yrs?

    There might be interest in Europe now, but there is stronger position of KHL as well. There is misunderstood of KHL in Europe. Yes, KHL is about russian hockey, therefore there is VHL and MHL (russian projects within KHL holding). KHL as league is not only about russian hockey, but about euro hockey. I have listened to Shalaev many times (I can give you sources, russian). Their goal is to collect best euro clubs... best, not everyone. Lulea or Kladno or so can not join KHL because there is no market and perspective in those cities. I would have no problem with CHL if it was declared as 2nd tier tournament in Europe for 2nd tier clubs... because in reality it is 2nd tier tourney. But they use marketing formula as "champions league". I have problem with such attitude. Lets allow best clubs to play KHL and 2nd tier to play CHL.

    There is also a big problem for CHL.. lets say they want to be succesful and big .. so needs best players. There is no market, even KHL has problem to get best players...and they can afford it.. CHL could not.

    Infrastructure - will CHL participants have to upgrade their arenas/tv crew/ect to be at Farjestad (just picked a club which I consider as best, you can add another team) level? You know there is a big gap among top swedish clubs and some slovak/danish club. Even Jokerit will have to upgrade arena to be able to join KHL... is similar rule in CHL? I doubt.
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    IHF Member Garethw87's Avatar
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    I agree with Vorky, I think a set up of

    1. KHL (and all who are interested and willing)
    2. CHL (or whatever type Euro league)
    3. Whatever they decide to put here (Continental Cup? for the lesser leagues)
    Dinamo Riga, Manchester Storm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    I liked the old CHL format better, I oppose the plan to let 26 out of 40 places go to fixed clubs. That does not sound so much "Champion's League" to me. I generally like the idea of a league parallel to national leagues more than a full season European League.
    I think this new CHL chose its name badly, because associations to the Champions League concept most people know from football and what the previous IIFH-led CHL also represented are strong. While in reality this current CHL is more than anything the next step of the European Trophy process. One notch closer to establishing a European league. The previous phases of this project have so far taken 4 seasons before taking the next step. Or probably decisions are made during the third year. I hear the deal for this current set-up is three years. Let's see if this pattern keeps repeating.

    It of course is no mistake CHL has been chosen as the name. Probably for the sake of raising attention; already a lot of people are reacting on it strongly. Just hope it won't backfire as the general public won't sense the difference and therefore treat the project as an illegitimate "Champions Cup".

  42. #42
    IHF Member Laho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    Vityaz? There is no such Vityaz anymore. So I dont understand your argument.
    Given how the club has at least one time been mostly known for its goonish side, I merely used it as an example of a hypothetical situation of blocking an entry from a team that could possibly tarnish the league's reputation. Whether that would come to pass if the club really tried to cash in, is whole another thing altogether. So no need to get your knickers in a twist.
    UPGRADE NOW: Laho 2.0: An all-new interface, improved outlook, refitted AI, better stick handling and a whole new load of lousy jokes. 100% HPK compatible.

  43. #43
    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Without financing the new CHL is at risk of going bust just like the last attempt. But I think there is an interest for pan-european hockey now that wasn't there 5 years ago. But to most Swedish hockey fans that is not directed at KHL, my feeling is that just the promise of a CHL next year has already garnered more interest in the fan base than the KHL season. KHL is still (although rather inaccurate by now) seen as a Russian league with Russian teams and Russian interests.

    KHL has seen growing interest in Sweden as well, but it is from low numbers and not in the general public, mostly with die-hard fans who follow specific Swedish players. CHL on the other hand seems to interest more Joe Average Fan.

    I agree , this is more or less same in CH except for last part, because there is no player. I saw more
    interest in press and forums for this news that KHL and RedBull in 2 years. Also because it is brought in relation with ZSC Lions.

  44. #44
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibizajp View Post
    I agree , this is more or less same in CH except for last part, because there is no player. I saw more
    interest in press and forums for this news that KHL and RedBull in 2 years. Also because it is brought in relation with ZSC Lions.
    I read Zaugg´s article saying that Servette is in touch with Arena Events, that means KHL. Bern and ZSC can follow them. Plus VIF Oslo and german club are in touch with Arena Events as well. If nothing is in press, it does not mean that KHL in unactive.
    http://webhokej24.sk/index.php twitter: @vorkywh24

  45. #45
    IHF Member Ibizajp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    I read Zaugg´s article saying that Servette is in touch with Arena Events, that means KHL. Bern and ZSC can follow them. Plus VIF Oslo and german club are in touch with Arena Events as well. If nothing is in press, it does not mean that KHL in unactive.
    I was not refering to news about KHL expansion in CH but to reaction of general public and the press TO
    THIS CHL NEWS compared to everyday KHL or the RED Bulls resultS which you CAN not even find.

    Vorky, Klaus Zaugg has his limits although I liked many of his articles.

    On the personal note: HE WAS SACKED by 20minutes after repeated personal attack on GAYDOUL(KLOTEN MILLIONAIRE). The guy is so powerful in Zürich he made lots of pressure on them with his lawyers that they finaly gave in. Swiss press liberty. A f....joke.
    Like in Russia :) Money liberty. He is not writing any column right now for nobody AFAIN.

    I will not deny that he has very good sources and is top guy about Swiss Hockey. And I miss his
    polemical columns.

  46. #46
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    According to hockeysverige.se swedish broadcaster SVT has bought the rights to broadcast Champions Hockey League the first three seasons.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  47. #47
    IHF Member
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    The CHL logo has been unveiled and a first web site is online where people can register for updates: http://www.championshockeyleague.net/


  48. #48
    IHF Member Garethw87's Avatar
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    I like it. Can't wait for it to start!
    Dinamo Riga, Manchester Storm

  49. #49
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Dislike the logo.
    http://webhokej24.sk/index.php twitter: @vorkywh24

  50. #50
    IHF Member itry's Avatar
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    The design probably cost hundreds of thousands on that... thing.
    Taro Tsujimoto, the greatest NHL player ever!

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