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Thread: 2015 IIHF World Div.IA Championship - Kraków, Poland; 19th-25th.Apr

  1. #1
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    2015 IIHF World Div.IA Championship - Kraków, Poland; 19th-25th.Apr

    Hungary
    Italy
    Japan
    Kazakhstan
    Poland
    Ukraine

    TAURON Arena Kraków, capacity: 15,000


    Tournament schedule
    DateHome TeamAway TeamTimeVenue
    19/4 Hungary Japan 13:00 Arena Kraków
    19/4 Ukraine Kazakhstan 16:30Arena Kraków
    19/4 Poland Italy 20:00Arena Kraków
    20/4 Kazakhstan Hungary 13:00Arena Kraków
    20/4 Italy Ukraine 16:30Arena Kraków
    20/4 Japan Poland 20:00 Arena Kraków
    22/4 Kazakhstan Japan 13:00Arena Kraków
    22/4 Italy Hungary 16:30Arena Kraków
    22/4 Poland Ukraine 20:00Arena Kraków
    23/4 Japan Italy 13:00Arena Kraków
    23/4 Ukraine Hungary 16:30Arena Kraków
    23/4 Kazakhstan Poland 20:00Arena Kraków
    25/4 Japan Ukraine 13:00Arena Kraków
    25/4 Italy Kazakhstan 16:30Arena Kraków
    25/4 Hungary Poland 20:00Arena Kraków

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    Preliminary roster, Hungary

    goalkeepers:
    Bálizs Bence 1990 Miskolci Jegesmedvék
    Hetényi Zoltán 1988 Fehérvár
    Rajna Miklós 1991 Fehérvár

    defensemen:
    Gőz Balázs 1992 Miskolci Jegesmedvék
    Gröschl Tamás 1980 Dab.Docler
    Kiss Dániel 1991 UTE
    Mestyán István 1989 Dab.Docler
    Orbán Attila 1990 Fehérvár
    Pozsgai Tamás 1988 Dab.Docler
    Reiter Attila 1994 Fehérvár
    Szirányi Bence 1988 Fehérvár
    Tokaji Viktor 1977 Fehérvár
    Varga Arnold 1992 Fehérvár
    Vas Márton 1980 Löwen Frankfurt (GER-2.)

    forwards:
    Azari Zsolt 1986 Dab.Docler
    Frank Banham 1975 Fehérvár
    Bartalis István 1990 Fehérvár
    Benk András 1987 Fehérvár
    Berta Ákos 1987 Debreceni HK
    Erdély Csanád 1996 Fehérvár
    Hajós Roland 1990 Miskolc
    Hári János 1992 MODO (SWE)
    Kovács Csaba 1984 Fehérvár
    Kóger Dániel 1989 Fehérvár
    Magosi Bálint 1989 Fehérvár
    Metcalfe Tyler 1984 Miskolci Jegesmedvék
    Nagy Gergő 1989 Chicago Wolves (AHL)
    Nagy Krisztián 1994 Miskolci Jegesmedvék
    Andrew Sarauer 1984 Fehérvár
    Sárpátki Tamás 1994 Fehérvár
    Sebők Balázs 1994 Karpat (FIN)
    Sikorcin Ladislav 1985 Fehérvár
    Sofron István 1988 Krefeld Pinguine (GER)
    Tóth Adrián 1990 Miskolc
    Vas János 1984 Slavia Praha (CZE)
    Vincze Péter 1995 Fehérvár

    preparation matches:
    2015. IV. 8., 18:00, Austria–Hungary (Vienna) TV: ORF Sport+, laola1.tv (live)
    2015. IV. 10., 19:00, Hungary–Austria (Budapest, Tüskecsarnok) TV: Sport 2 (live)
    2015. IV. 12., 17:00, Hungary–Slovenia (Budapest, Tüskecsarnok) TV: Sport 1 (live)

  3. #3
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    Quick question will Andrew Sarauer already be eligible to play for Hungary at the upcoming tournament? I'm asking because it seems that he is with Fehervar only since the end of May 2013 which to my understanding would prevent him to play for Hungary in Cracow.

    Should he be eligible, with him and Frank Banham Hungry's firepower rises considerably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Quick question will Andrew Sarauer already be eligible to play for Hungary at the upcoming tournament? I'm asking because it seems that he is with Fehervar only since the end of May 2013 which to my understanding would prevent him to play for Hungary in Cracow.

    Should he be eligible, with him and Frank Banham Hungry's firepower rises considerably.
    Yes he is, new (and stupid) IIHF rules allow that. They both got their passports last week.

    I'm not entirely happy with the fact that we'll probably field three new Canadians (Banham, Sarauer and Metcalfe), especially because none of them is a defenseman (although I hear that Metcalfe might be converted for the Worlds). Our defenders are not nearly as good as our hockey is, so domesticating one or two defensemen temporarily could allow our NT to reflect the strength of Hungarian hockey better than it can now. However, nationalising forwards this way doesn't seem fair.

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    Hungary beats Austria 4-2 in Vienna. The result is promising, however, for most of the first two periods, the hosts dominated, goaltending was the difference. Metcalfe scored a goal as a defenseman while Sarauer and Banham assisted on the first Hungarian goal. There were some promising signs, but it's too early to draw any conclusions. On Friday, the sides will meet again in Budapest, and Slovenia will come to Hungary as well.

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    Prelimany roster Italy

    After Paul Zanette (Bolzano/injury), Daniel Frank (Bolzano/work) and Andreas Lutz (Milano(work) had to decline invitation, head coach Stefan Mair decided to cut Denny Deanesi (Kaltern/Bolzano) and goalkeeper Alex Caffi (Milano) from the roster.
    So this is at the moment the roster of Team Italy.

    Goalies:
    Andreas Bernard (Saipa/FIN)
    Thomas Tragust (Egna)
    Gianluca Vallini (Appiano)

    Defenceman:
    Christian Willeit (Egna), Armin Hofer, Armin Helfer, Daniel Glira (Val Pusteria), Hannes Oberdörfer, Roland Hofer, Alexander Egger (Bolzano), Alex Trivellato (Eisbären Berlin/DEL), Luca Zanatta, Michael Zanatta (Martigny/NLB)

    Forwards:
    Joachim Ramoser, Jan Pavlu (Salzburg/MHL), Anton Bernard, Marco Insam, Markus Gander (Bolzano), Raphael Andergassen, Alex Frei (Caldaro), Diego Kostner (Lugano/NLA), Michael Sullmann (Egna), Giovanni Morini, Paolo Morini (Lugano/Elite Junior), Nate Di Casmirro, Luca Frigo (Valpellice), Edoardo Caletti, Tommaso Migliore (Milano), Michele Marchetti (Fassa)

    Reserve List: Daniel Morandell (Caldaro); Marco De Filippo (Louisiana Gator/SPHL), Christian Borgatello, Ivan Tauferer (Ritten Sport), Ivan Althuber (Val Pusteria), Stefano Marchetti, Dan Sullivan, Enrico Miglioranzi (Asiago), Alexander Sullmann (Egna), Thomas Larkin (Springfield/AHL); Luca Ansoldi, Luca Felicetti, Dan Tudin, Simon Kostner (Ritten Sport), David Borrelli (Asiago)


    Final roster will be decided on next Wednesday after two exhibition games against Kazakhstan. Most notable player not on the roster is Giulio Scandella (Val Pusteria), who will not participate due to family problems.

  7. #7
    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
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    How many Italos on the roster ?

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    IHF Member PhilHell37's Avatar
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    Nate Di Casmirro, Dan Sullivan, Dan Tudin, David Borrelli and Brian Ihnacak (who I forgot to add in the last post).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    Hungary beats Austria 4-2 in Vienna. The result is promising, however, for most of the first two periods, the hosts dominated, goaltending was the difference. Metcalfe scored a goal as a defenseman while Sarauer and Banham assisted on the first Hungarian goal. There were some promising signs, but it's too early to draw any conclusions. On Friday, the sides will meet again in Budapest, and Slovenia will come to Hungary as well.
    Watched the game live, was a very modest affair. AUT had a decent start and had the upper hand during the first period resulting in a 2-0 lead that imho reflected the course of the game well. Later Austria stalled and Hungary got better at least relatively capitalizing on bad defensive mistakes of the hosts to tie the game and take the lead (very nice goal by Hari for the 2-3). I liked what I saw from David Madlener (had a couple of very good saves and couldn't do much on the goals he allowed) in net for AUT and that 19yr old Erik Kirchschläger from Linz (his dad is a buddy of mine) got to play regularily and did ok. Raphael Herburger stood out of the rest (of both teams) but in total it was a really lame game with tons of non-connecting passes, individual mistakes and a lack of intensity and flow. It looked like a mid-August preseason game to me.

    I didn't like that this "senior" team is all Austrian hockey has to offer when two club teams are still in the play-offs. Way too many players that would be major upgrades to the NT have unfortuantely (though not for bad reasons) retired recently and there is no way in hell to replace them adequately anytime soon.
    As for Hungary, I had also expected more...if challenging for a promo spot is the goal this team will have to crank it up quite a bit.

  10. #10
    IHF Member PhilHell37's Avatar
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    Looks like Stefan Mair wants 24 year old Marco De Filippo (if available) as the backup of Andreas Bernard. De Filippo played 4 seasons for Brown University in NCAA, before joining Louisiana IceGators in SPHL for this season.

    http://www.eurohockey.com/player/957...e-filippo.html

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=96315

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    10.04.2015, @Budapest

    HUN – AUT 3:2 (2:0,1:1,0:1)
    Goals:
    1:0 Bartalis (10.)
    2:0 Banham (11./PP)
    2.1 Ganahl (23./PP)
    3:1 Koger (38./PP)
    3:2 Schumnig (48./SH)
    PIM: 6 : 8

    Highlights:
    http://www.laola1.tv/de-at/video/ung...ch/319048.html

    Highlights from AUT - HUN @Vienna, 8.4.
    http://www.laola1.tv/de-at/video/oes...rn/319046.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilHell37 View Post
    After Paul Zanette (Bolzano/injury), Daniel Frank (Bolzano/work) and Andreas Lutz (Milano(work) had to decline invitation, head coach Stefan Mair decided to cut Denny Deanesi (Kaltern/Bolzano) and goalkeeper Alex Caffi (Milano) from the roster.
    So this is at the moment the roster of Team Italy.

    Goalies:
    Andreas Bernard (Saipa/FIN)
    Thomas Tragust (Egna)
    Gianluca Vallini (Appiano)

    Defenceman:
    Christian Willeit (Egna), Armin Hofer, Armin Helfer, Daniel Glira (Val Pusteria), Hannes Oberdörfer, Roland Hofer, Alexander Egger (Bolzano), Alex Trivellato (Eisbären Berlin/DEL), Luca Zanatta, Michael Zanatta (Martigny/NLB)

    Forwards:
    Joachim Ramoser, Jan Pavlu (Salzburg/MHL), Anton Bernard, Marco Insam, Markus Gander (Bolzano), Raphael Andergassen, Alex Frei (Caldaro), Diego Kostner (Lugano/NLA), Michael Sullmann (Egna), Giovanni Morini, Paolo Morini (Lugano/Elite Junior), Nate Di Casmirro, Luca Frigo (Valpellice), Edoardo Caletti, Tommaso Migliore (Milano), Michele Marchetti (Fassa)

    Reserve List: Daniel Morandell (Caldaro); Marco De Filippo (Louisiana Gator/SPHL), Christian Borgatello, Ivan Tauferer (Ritten Sport), Ivan Althuber (Val Pusteria), Stefano Marchetti, Dan Sullivan, Enrico Miglioranzi (Asiago), Alexander Sullmann (Egna), Thomas Larkin (Springfield/AHL); Luca Ansoldi, Luca Felicetti, Dan Tudin, Simon Kostner (Ritten Sport), David Borrelli (Asiago)


    Final roster will be decided on next Wednesday after two exhibition games against Kazakhstan. Most notable player not on the roster is Giulio Scandella (Val Pusteria), who will not participate due to family problems.

    Why no Fontanive?

  13. #13
    IHF Member PhilHell37's Avatar
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    Stefan Mair cuts Christian Willeit (Neumarkt-Egna), Roland Hofer (Bolzano), M. Marchetti (Fassa), M. Sullmann (Neumarkt-Egna), Caletti (Milano) and Migliore (Milano).

    Dan Tudin, Christian Borgatello, Luca Ansoldi (all Ritten) and Dave Borrelli (Asiago) have all declined the invitation.

    So now the Italian roster consists of 29 players, of which only 3 are 'Italos' (DiCasmirro, Sullivan, Ihnacak).

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    IHF Member PhilHell37's Avatar
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    @ xunearthhxcx

    Fontanive has retired from the national team.

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    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    The only prediction I can make for this group is Ukraine finishing last and relegating.

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    IHF Staff Davide's Avatar
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    no Wojtek Wolski in Poland? the roster of host seems quite weak too... Poland lost two preparation matches against Great Britain (4-6 and 1-3) with this roster:

    Goalies:

    Przemysław Odrobny (JKH GKS Jastrzębie)

    Rafał Radziszewski (Comarch Cracovia)

    Defence:

    Mateusz Bryk, Mateusz Rompkowski (JKH GKS Jastrzębie)

    Bartosz Dąbkowski, Maciej Kruczek, Patryk Wajda (Comarch Cracovia)

    Rafał Dutka (Ciarko PBS Bank KH Sanok)

    Michał Kotlorz, Bartłomiej Pociecha, Jakub Wanacki (GKS Tychy)

    Forwards:

    Adam Bagiński, Radosław Galant, Kacper Guzik, Marcin Kolusz, Jarosław Rzeszutko, Jakub Witecki (GKS Tychy)

    Kamil Kalinowski (Unia Oświęcim)

    Krystian Dziubiński, Damian Kapica (Podhale Nowy Targ)

    Sebastian Kowalówka, Grzegorz Pasiut (Comarch Cracovia)

    Leszek Laszkiewicz, Maciej Urbanowicz (JKH GKS Jastrzębie)

    Tomasz Malasiński (Swindow Wildcats)

    Krzysztof Zapała (Ciarko PBS Bank KH Sanok)


    Fischtown Penguins Bremerhaven Pawel Dronia won't partecipate to WC because his club will play DEL2 finals next week.

    Ocelari Trinec forward Aron Chmielewski will join training camp in next days

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilHell37 View Post
    Stefan Mair cuts Christian Willeit (Neumarkt-Egna), Roland Hofer (Bolzano), M. Marchetti (Fassa), M. Sullmann (Neumarkt-Egna), Caletti (Milano) and Migliore (Milano).

    Dan Tudin, Christian Borgatello, Luca Ansoldi (all Ritten) and Dave Borrelli (Asiago) have all declined the invitation.

    So now the Italian roster consists of 29 players, of which only 3 are 'Italos' (DiCasmirro, Sullivan, Ihnacak).
    Hats off to the Italians to sticking to the plan of using more homegrown players (although some personal decisions also factored in). Isn't Zanatta also an Italo (Canadian father, Swiss passport)?

    I'm feeling a bit ashamed that now Hungary has more naturalised players (Banham, Metcalfe, Sarauer and technically Sikorcin as well) than Italy does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    The only prediction I can make for this group is Ukraine finishing last and relegating.
    Right, the current Ukrainian roster seems weaker than some div2B teams.

    I would be surprised to see Kazakhstan stay at this level, they have by far the best roster here, and I don't think that the Poles are consistent enough to get promoted. But it seems like it's going to be a great race between Italy, Hungary and Japan for 2nd.

  19. #19
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    My predictions:

    1. Kazakhstan
    2. Italy (Canada)
    3. Hungary (Canada)
    4. Japan
    5. Poland
    6. Ukraine

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    Hats off to the Italians to sticking to the plan of using more homegrown players (although some personal decisions also factored in). Isn't Zanatta also an Italo (Canadian father, Swiss passport)?

    I'm feeling a bit ashamed that now Hungary has more naturalised players (Banham, Metcalfe, Sarauer and technically Sikorcin as well) than Italy does.
    The Zanatta-brothers grew up in Italy and moved to Switzerland at a young age to develop their hockey skills. Same counts for Diego Kostner and the Morini brothers Paolo and Giovanni. Giovanni btw, will play for Lugano's NLA team next season (alongside Kostner), whereas Paolo got a contract in NLB.

    Italy's problem will be goal scoring and that is where we will miss players like Scandella (or like Hungary has in Banham). The only two goal scorers on the team are Marco Insam and Brian Ihnacak, not sure if that is going to be enough.

    You could also see it in today's friendly in Trento - 0:2 against Kazakhstan. Still, good to see a lot of young players on the team and finally a team that is not only built on short-term-success.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    no Wojtek Wolski in Poland?
    Wolski is not eligible to play for Poland. If you think IIHF is stupid, I can only agree with you.

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    although im a huge team italy fan. id love to see japan promote..

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    My predictions:

    1. Kazakhstan(Kevin Dallman)
    2. Italy (Canada)
    3. Hungary (Canada)
    4. Japan
    5. Poland
    6. Ukraine
    italy has 3 non italian born players

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xunearthhxcx View Post
    italy has 3 non italian born players
    So does Hungary (+ Sikorcin, who is half-Hungarian).

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    Kaz 2 - 0 Ita in friendly. Goals by Dallman and Starchenko.

  27. #27
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    Wolski is not eligible to play for Poland. If you think IIHF is stupid, I can only agree with you.
    ....he's played a whole 9 games in Poland in his entire life. He's eligible to play for Canada though if he wants.

  28. #28
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    The IIHF needs to amend its rules, as the advent of the "national superclub" (i.e., Medvescak Zagreb or Anyang Halla, anyone?) playing in a transnational league such as EBEL or the KHL or even the Asia League, when the country the club hails from has no other remotely comparable hockey, has made a mockery of what national team competition is all about.

    If someone is born in a certain country and has always held a passport from that country, he should be able to play for that country, regardless of whether he ever played there or ever even set foot there since he was a month old. It's ridiculous already. Wolski should be able to play for Poland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    So does Hungary (+ Sikorcin, who is half-Hungarian).
    Metcalfe also. He came to Hungary to play hockey well after he applied for citizenship on his own (3 of his grandparents are from Hungary)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    ....he's played a whole 9 games in Poland in his entire life. He's eligible to play for Canada though if he wants.
    Na und...? He has much more to do with Poland than Banham has to do with Hungary.

  31. #31
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Marc:

    It is the objective of the IIHF that national teams competing in IIHF championships shall reflect the status and standard of the sport as currently played by both citizens of and citizens in the country concerned and to protect the integrity of international competition
    IIHF Statures & Bylaws, Section 406. (bolding is my own)

    In the case of superclubs, in which players are given passports very quickly, this key objective is fulfilled. The only issue I have is that the required period for eligibility is too short. In the case of Wolski, it has nothing to do with the game in Poland, since he has only ever played 250 minutes (assuming he played 40 minutes out of every one of his 9 games, in reality it is likely far less) there.
    I've read and heard more about David Levin, to look at another example that I had questioned. The time he spent playing hockey in Israel (little on ice, but lots inline) shows he definitely developed his skills there at an early stage, thus he DOES represent the level of hockey as currently played by both citizens of and citizens in the country concerned

  32. #32
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    Italy

    Interesting news from Team Italy: As sign of the rebuilding process, 25-year old Anton Bernard (HC Bolzano) will be the captain and not, as expected, 35 year old defenceman (and captain of HC Bolzano) Alexander Egger.
    Diego Kosnter (Lugano) and Armin Helfer (Val Pusteria) will serve as the assistant captains.

    Today there will be the second exhibiton game against Kazakhstan, which can be seen on this website at 20:30 CET: http://www.idealweb.tv/live/

    Tomorrow the final decision on the Italian roster will be taken, as Stefan Mair will have to cut 1 goalie, 2 defenceman and 4 forwards.

  33. #33
    IHF Member zamo86's Avatar
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    It shouldnt matter how many games Wolski played in Poland (on club level). He is Polish and was born in Poland. This fact alone should make him eligible to represent Poland if he wants to (unless he has already represented Canada internationally, which he did not).

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamo86 View Post
    It shouldnt matter how many games Wolski played in Poland (on club level). He is Polish and was born in Poland. This fact alone should make him eligible to represent Poland if he wants to (unless he has already represented Canada internationally, which he did not).
    No, no, no. Thou shallt only be able to represent a country in hockey in which you have played the game for a "long enough time".
    Hockey-wise Wolski is as un-polish as can be, he hasn't really contributed to Polish hockey and hockey in Poland hasn't contributed anything for his career. So why the hell should he play for Poland?

    The only sense "national" team competition makes in a globalized world is a comparisons of systems with respect to the players these systems have at least partially formed and/or which they sustain or have sustained as athletes for a long enough time.

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    Had Wolski family abstained from taking Canadian citizenship, it would have been stupid, as well as illegal from IIHF to prevent Wolski for playing for his country. However, the mere fact that Wolski, in addition to moving to Canada, got the Canadian citizenship, means that the family decided to accept Canada as its new home. Hockeywise, it's Canada that make a hockey player out of Wolski and no matter where he was born and under what name he is as Canadian as Gretzky.

    Having said that, I am 100% against giving citizenships to athletes for sports purposes only. Globalised world or not, it is still made up from sovereign countries. Once the "ruling lizzards" decide to get rid of the countries all together and introduce Formula 1 style of international competitition then let the best teams money can buy play at the Winter Corporate Games.

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    Another promo from Hungary:


  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    Had Wolski family abstained from taking Canadian citizenship, it would have been stupid, as well as illegal from IIHF to prevent Wolski for playing for his country. However, the mere fact that Wolski, in addition to moving to Canada, got the Canadian citizenship, means that the family decided to accept Canada as its new home. Hockeywise, it's Canada that make a hockey player out of Wolski and no matter where he was born and under what name he is as Canadian as Gretzky.

    Having said that, I am 100% against giving citizenships to athletes for sports purposes only. Globalised world or not, it is still made up from sovereign countries. Once the "ruling lizzards" decide to get rid of the countries all together and introduce Formula 1 style of international competitition then let the best teams money can buy play at the Winter Corporate Games.

    PLease tell me more about the "ruling lizards". That sounds like a cool story. For safety reasons, shall I put on my aluminium hat right away?

  38. #38
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    No, no, no. Thou shallt only be able to represent a country in hockey in which you have played the game for a "long enough time".
    Hockey-wise Wolski is as un-polish as can be, he hasn't really contributed to Polish hockey and hockey in Poland hasn't contributed anything for his career. So why the hell should he play for Poland?

    The only sense "national" team competition makes in a globalized world is a comparisons of systems with respect to the players these systems have at least partially formed and/or which they sustain or have sustained as athletes for a long enough time.
    IIHF has many ridiculous rules and eligibility requirements, but one issue that is way overdue is the issue of these "super clubs". Croatian players from teams like Medvescak, which is a hockey anomaly in Croatia, should not be able to play for the national team unless they have played in the domestic league as per current IIHF rules. This would go along with your logic of the whole Wolski situation. KHL is a Russian based league with some clubs in Europe, and btw this rule would apply to those teams outside of Russia in the KHL as well. Which would mean many players from Donbass, Riga, etc. who were developed by the club would be eligible to play for Russia before their respective country of birth, but according to your logic that is a benefit the KHL would reap since they setup a league and were responsible for setting up teams all over Europe.

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    I think the issue is much better refered to as "super-leagues" rather than "super clubs". Transnational leagues do exist (which is good) and one has to think of a definition of what the "hockey system" of a country as I have sloppily called it really is. In that respect I think any club playing in an transnational league is still part of the sport of hockey played in the country it is located. Due to the participation of Medvescak in KHL the sport as played in the league is in fact also based and run from out of Zagreb/Croatia and thus imho part of Croatian hockey (although it is an outlier, no doubt). So I would have no issue with a player who was with Medvsecak for a sufficiently long time to be able to gain eligibility to play for Croatia. Likewise, if you think of EBEL, Bozen is an Italian team playing in a transnational league (same with Fehervar, Ljubljana) and therefore part of "italian hockey" after all it is predominantly Italian spectators and sponsors who finance the club to the enjoyment of the people in and around the city. A club participating in a transnational league doesn't exclude that it also contributes to hockey in its country overall (quite the contrary in most cases).

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    I think the issue is much better refered to as "super-leagues" rather than "super clubs". Transnational leagues do exist (which is good) and one has to think of a definition of what the "hockey system" of a country as I have sloppily called it really is. In that respect I think any club playing in an transnational league is still part of the sport of hockey played in the country it is located. Due to the participation of Medvescak in KHL the sport as played in the league is in fact also based and run from out of Zagreb/Croatia and thus imho part of Croatian hockey (although it is an outlier, no doubt). So I would have no issue with a player who was with Medvsecak for a sufficiently long time to be able to gain eligibility to play for Croatia. Likewise, if you think of EBEL, Bozen is an Italian team playing in a transnational league (same with Fehervar, Ljubljana) and therefore part of "italian hockey" after all it is predominantly Italian spectators and sponsors who finance the club to the enjoyment of the people in and around the city. A club participating in a transnational league doesn't exclude that it also contributes to hockey in its country overall (quite the contrary in most cases).
    Maybe I was beating around the bush with my point, but here is my point. Any teams from a transnational league such as the KHL or EBEL, which are not located in the founding country (e.g. Russia/KHL, Austria/EBEL) should not be considered as participating in a domestic league of that outlying country, in turn meaning those players playing for those teams should not have eligibility to play for that country's national team based on the IIHF ruling of playing 2 seasons in said domestic league prior to representing said country. A transnational league should not be classified as a domestic league because the one outlying team from a country such as Croatia, Latvia, etc. mostly competes and therefore benefits , against teams from a much stronger hockey nation.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    Maybe I was beating around the bush with my point, but here is my point. Any teams from a transnational league such as the KHL or EBEL, which are not located in the founding country (e.g. Russia/KHL, Austria/EBEL) should not be considered as participating in a domestic league of that outlying country, in turn meaning those players playing for those teams should not have eligibility to play for that country's national team based on the IIHF ruling of playing 2 seasons in said domestic league prior to representing said country. A transnational league should not be classified as a domestic league because the one outlying team from a country such as Croatia, Latvia, etc. mostly competes and therefore benefits , against teams from a much stronger hockey nation.
    But Medveščak solved that potential problem by having two teams, one playing in EBEL/KHL and one in domestic league. When season in EBEL/KHL was over players from professional squad joined that one in national championship, usually in the playoffs when they secured the title for Medveščak, and thus technically fulfilled the IIHF rule of playing 2 seasons in domestic league.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    But Medveščak solved that potential problem by having two teams, one playing in EBEL/KHL and one in domestic league. When season in EBEL/KHL was over players from professional squad joined that one in national championship, usually in the playoffs when they secured the title for Medveščak, and thus technically fulfilled the IIHF rule of playing 2 seasons in domestic league.
    That's a shady way around it. Ideally the players playing on the KHL/EBEL Medvescak squad shouldn't be able to just jump from one team to another. Also I'm sure the teams in the domestic league are not happy about this as well, having to face a team in the domestic playoffs so much stronger than the one they face during the regular season.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    That's a shady way around it. Ideally the players playing on the KHL/EBEL Medvescak squad shouldn't be able to just jump from one team to another. Also I'm sure the teams in the domestic league are not happy about this as well, having to face a team in the domestic playoffs so much stronger than the one they face during the regular season.
    Yes, but technically it's the same club so they can play for both of them. IMO, that whole thing is a travesty, especially because Medveščak without players from KHL wouldn't be a favorite to win national title. It's not unfair only to other clubs, it's also unfair towards player who represented Medveščak in domestic league during the season but were dropped from roster when KHLers came.

    I see Kazakhstan as clear favorites here although they miss couple of important players, mostly from Barys. They also have one import in Dallman but that's minor addition to the roster when comparing with Hungarian and Italian imports. Next year they'll probably have one more import in Bochenski who will fulfill the regulations for representing Kazakh NT.
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    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Every year, I always underestimate Poland, and they always (pleasantly) surprise me with how good they are. It's shame they have a less than optimal roster this time out, especially considering that they are the hosts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Every year, I always underestimate Poland, and they always (pleasantly) surprise me with how good they are. It's shame they have a less than optimal roster this time out, especially considering that they are the hosts.
    You sir must be seeing the glass half full, not half empty, that's good.

    The roster itself is really not that different with the exceptions of Dronia and Borzecki which are in the playoffs for their club teams in Germany. It was announced today that Jaroslaw Rzeszutko will not be on the final roster, which is a shame because he was playing very well after coming back from a knee injury early this season. Good news is HC Ocelari Trinec have released Aron Chmielewski to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    Metcalfe also. He came to Hungary to play hockey well after he applied for citizenship on his own (3 of his grandparents are from Hungary)
    I know, and I have nothing against his naturalisation. However, I think that the fact that he's a 3rd generation expat makes him a true import, even if one that really wants to be Hungarian. On the other hand, players of Hungarian ethnicity in neighbouring countries can be considered fully Hungarian and I wouldn't consider them imports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    I see Kazakhstan as clear favorites here although they miss couple of important players, mostly from Barys. They also have one import in Dallman but that's minor addition to the roster when comparing with Hungarian and Italian imports. Next year they'll probably have one more import in Bochenski who will fulfill the regulations for representing Kazakh NT.
    Well, it's always hard to say how many "imports" Kazakhstan and Ukraine (or Belarus, for that matter) have. After all, they always have a few Russians, who have to be naturalised the same way any other foreigner does. But their hockey systems are so connected to Russia (not to speak about cultural closeness) that it's hard to call them imports the way Dallman or Banham is.

    However, I wouldn't call Dallman a minor addition. He is by far the best player they have (with the exception of Antropov), and has no rivals among the defensemen at this level. Banham, Sarauer, Metcalfe or the Italian imports are not that much better than the homegrown players (Ihnacak and Sarauer are the best players of their teams, though, but not by that much). He is only minor in the sense that he is alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Every year, I always underestimate Poland, and they always (pleasantly) surprise me with how good they are. It's shame they have a less than optimal roster this time out, especially considering that they are the hosts.
    I think they will beat Ukraine and at least one of the trio of Japan, Hungary and Italy. They looked pretty good in friendlies against Hungary during the season, if they were able to build some kind of chemistry they should be able to pull an upset.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    Well, it's always hard to say how many "imports" Kazakhstan and Ukraine (or Belarus, for that matter) have. After all, they always have a few Russians, who have to be naturalised the same way any other foreigner does. But their hockey systems are so connected to Russia (not to speak about cultural closeness) that it's hard to call them imports the way Dallman or Banham is.

    However, I wouldn't call Dallman a minor addition. He is by far the best player they have (with the exception of Antropov), and has no rivals among the defensemen at this level. Banham, Sarauer, Metcalfe or the Italian imports are not that much better than the homegrown players (Ihnacak and Sarauer are the best players of their teams, though, but not by that much). He is only minor in the sense that he is alone.
    Yes, that was my point in the first place. Kazakhstan isn't such a bad team that player like Dallman would make an imact on the team that's more significant than the impact Hungarian and Italian imports will make on their team. Yes, he was the team's best scorer on the tournament but still...he is alone and there are 4-5 players in Italy/Hungary that have smaller player pool than Kazakhstan.

    And I wouldn't call Antropov and Dallman the best players Kazakhstan has; Dallman definitely yes but Antropov is far from his prime. IMO Starchenko, Krasnoslobodtsev and potentially even Savchenko and Zhailauov are currently better players than Antropov.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    Yes, that was my point in the first place. Kazakhstan isn't such a bad team that player like Dallman would make an imact on the team that's more significant than the impact Hungarian and Italian imports will make on their team. Yes, he was the team's best scorer on the tournament but still...he is alone and there are 4-5 players in Italy/Hungary that have smaller player pool than Kazakhstan.

    And I wouldn't call Antropov and Dallman the best players Kazakhstan has; Dallman definitely yes but Antropov is far from his prime. IMO Starchenko, Krasnoslobodtsev and potentially even Savchenko and Zhailauov are currently better players than Antropov.
    You might be right about Antropov, I haven't seen him extensively since he left the NHL, but he was pretty good last year at the Worlds. I would still make the argument that the best homegrown Italian is closer to Ihnacak and the best homegrown Hungarian is closer to Sarauer than any Kazakh is to Dallman.

    Just to be correct: neither Italy nor Hungary has 4-5 imports this year. Both have 3 (if you want to count Sikorcin, than Hungary has 4, but applying the same standard Kazakhstan and Ukraine have many more). Since Metcalfe is an average player for the NT (could be replaced relatively easily), Hungary has 2 above average imports, Italy has 3. That's not much more than 1, but their collective impact is certainly bigger than Dallman's.

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