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Thread: Olympic Qual. Preliminary Round 1 - Group K - Tallinn, Estonia, 05-08- November 2015

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    IHF Staff Davide's Avatar
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    Olympics Olympic Qual. Preliminary Round 1 - Group K - Tallinn, Estonia, 05-08- November 2015

    From 05 to 08 November, at Ice Hall Tondiraba Capacity: 5840


    Estonia (28)
    Mexico (31)
    Israel (32)
    Bulgaria (35)

    Numbers in brackets indicate IIHF ranking position


    Fixtures:

    05.11 15:00 Mexico - Bulgaria
    05.11 19:00 Israel - Estonia


    06.11 15:00 Mexico - Israel
    06.11 19:00 Estonia - Bulgaria


    08.11 13:00 Bulgaria - Israel
    08.11 17:00 Estonia - Mexico

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    IHF Staff Davide's Avatar
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    Estonia Estonia roster

    Goaltenders:

    Seppenen Daniil Narva PSK
    Šumihhin Roman Tallinn Panter
    Koitmaa Villem-Henrik no club

    Defenders:

    Auksi Michael Brockton Generals (Canada GTHLA)
    Kerna Silver Jukurit Mikkeli (Finland U20 Mestis)
    Lahesalu Lauri Angers (France)
    Minin Artjom Porvoo Hunters (Suomi Sarja - FIN)
    Rõbushkin Maksim Kohtla-Järve Viru Sputnik
    Sildre Pelle Tallinn Panter
    Urušev Ilja Tallinn Panter

    Forwards:

    Arrak Robert Espoo Blues (Finland U20 SM-Liiga)
    Fedoruk Artur Tallinn Panter
    Gornostajev Artjom Muik Hockey (II Div. - FIN)
    Kozõrev Nikita Augsburger EV U19 (Germany DNL)
    Kuznetsov Aleksander Tallinn Viking
    Lukats Jan EHC Bad Aibling (Germany 5)
    Rooba Robert Espoo Blues (Finland)
    Russ Ragnar-Hindrek Kalajoki JHT (Suomi Sarja - FIN)
    Sinikas Mihkel Espoo Blues Akatemia (Finland U20 Mestis)
    Sorokin Jaanus Tallinn Panter
    Titarenko Vassili Kohtla-Järve Viru Sputnik
    Võrang Mihkel Tallinn Panter
    Teppan Risto Salo Kiekkohait (II Div. - FIN)

    Head coach: Tupamäki Jussi (FIN)
    Assistant coach: Ahi Andrus
    Assistant coach: Pekkarinen Janne (FIN)


    Estonia will miss key players as Andrei Makrov, Alexander Osipov, Roman Andreev and Alexei Sibirtsev, all not released by their clubs

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    IHF Member partizanhk's Avatar
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    For this kind of opponents, there really doesnt need to bring all the best for this tournament. Easy win for Estonia even if they bring just 10 players

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    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Israel, as is usual in the Olympic qualification, will not bring its strongest roster, or anything close to it. It will use the games to give its Israel-based players, especially its U20 players, international experience.

    From what I heard, Mexico won't have its top roster either.

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    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Per his Facebook, Georgi Iskrenov has been called up to Bulgaria for this qualifying
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

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    IHF Member Oleg A's Avatar
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    Local Web-TV announced Live video of estonian games (russian and estonian languages comment with in) some links @ http://virusputnik.ee/
    Last edited by Oleg A; 04-11-2015 at 00:29. Reason: add info

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    Oleg, what is the situation with Aleksander Petrov? He could be the best center in Estonia, but haven't been a nationalteam since a few years.

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    IHF Member Oleg A's Avatar
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    I suppose he is not very interesting in NT. Family in Italy and as i heard he wanted get italian citizenship.

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    IHF Member WHawks's Avatar
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    Does that mean he has to give up his estonian citizenship, since that's a problem? I mean he already qualifies to play for estonia regardless of if he requires an italian citizenship now.

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    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Is he good enough to compete for Italy though? I mean, he'd be a star for Estonia versus maybe be a third or fourth liner for Italy right?
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

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    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Is he good enough to compete for Italy though? I mean, he'd be a star for Estonia versus maybe be a third or fourth liner for Italy right?
    32 years old and he still need two more years in italian league to gain possibility to play for Italy, I seriously doubt.

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    Israel Israel Roster

    Goaltenders:
    LOGINOV Alexander Rishon Devils
    GOKHBERG Maxim Bat Yam Icebergs

    Defence:
    KOZEV Denis Haifa Hawks
    KAFRI Ori Bat Yam Icebergs
    MARGOULIS Evgeni Rishon Devils
    GOTSHTEIN Dotan Maalot
    NOSANKOV Vlad CIHS Metula
    RAITER Denis Maalot

    Forwards:
    SPEKTOR Ilya Kfar Saba
    AHARONOVICH Roey Billings Bulls
    REVNIAGA Mark Maalot
    SHERF Maor Rishon Devils
    NATALCHENKO Evgueni CIHS Metulla
    GREENBERG Joshua Bat Yam Icebergs
    BEN TOV Itay Maalot
    VAINSHTEIN Ron CIHS Metulla
    BUZ Maxim Rishon Devils
    Last edited by Marc Brunengraber; 05-11-2015 at 21:40. Reason: Corrected clubs for Natalchenko/Vainshtein/Nosankov

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    Surprised to see Roey Aharonovich out there...
    He joined the Billing Bulls from the North American 3 Hockey League this season...
    Hope to see him and Spektor putting up a show...

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    Estonia - Israel:
    Any idea about the stoppage at 10:40?
    Estonia number 4 was ejected by off-ice officials

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    Quote Originally Posted by Half a Ref View Post
    Estonia - Israel:
    Any idea about the stoppage at 10:40?
    Estonia number 4 was ejected by off-ice officials
    was you by the right game? EST has no No. 4 and I cannot see any stop at 10.40..
    http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/567/IHM567902_74_3_0.pdf
    Cheers, Franco

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    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Israel sent an all-Israeli League roster except for Aharonovich, and only three lines. Very young roster as well, for the most part.

    Estonia usually destroys Israel in IIHF competition, so I expected this game to be particularly ugly. But 19-1? Really? That's terrible.

    The Israeli defense for this tournament is not remotely suited for IIHF competition except for Margoulis (ironically one of the few guys here at this event for Israel in his thirties).

    Max Gokhberg is very young and comparatively inexperienced, and probably shouldn't be exposed to this level of competition yet; they should have taken Nir Tichon from Rishon (Loginov's backup on Rishon) instead.

    The biggest problem I have is with the Israeli head coach, Derek Eisler. In my opinion, he did not do a good job with the national teams last year, and this is an unacceptable result, even with a very young roster. This is partly because of the style of game he employs, but also because he refuses to use the Israeli-Canadian dual citizens based in North America who have given their blood, sweat, tears and money out of their own pockets to the program for many years. He disrespects them when he does include them on the roster, and barely gives them ice time. He plays favorites and politics with the roster he does use. He puts players in situations that they don't belong in, which is a misreading of his available talent base. In my opinion, he is the wrong guy for the job and I look forward to the day when the federation wakes up and replaces him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    was you by the right game? EST has no No. 4 and I cannot see any stop at 10.40..
    http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/567/IHM567902_74_3_0.pdf
    Probably that's what it was...
    There was an offside call, and an off-ice official asked for the referee and they talked, then the ref ejected EST number 4,
    I guess a guy had a wrong jersey on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Israel sent an all-Israeli League roster except for Aharonovich, and only three lines. Very young roster as well, for the most part.

    Estonia usually destroys Israel in IIHF competition, so I expected this game to be particularly ugly. But 19-1? Really? That's terrible.

    The Israeli defense for this tournament is not remotely suited for IIHF competition except for Margoulis (ironically one of the few guys here at this event for Israel in his thirties).

    Max Gokhberg is very young and comparatively inexperienced, and probably shouldn't be exposed to this level of competition yet; they should have taken Nir Tichon from Rishon (Loginov's backup on Rishon) instead.

    The biggest problem I have is with the Israeli head coach, Derek Eisler. In my opinion, he did not do a good job with the national teams last year, and this is an unacceptable result, even with a very young roster. This is partly because of the style of game he employs, but also because he refuses to use the Israeli-Canadian dual citizens based in North America who have given their blood, sweat, tears and money out of their own pockets to the program for many years. He disrespects them when he does include them on the roster, and barely gives them ice time. He plays favorites and politics with the roster he does use. He puts players in situations that they don't belong in, which is a misreading of his available talent base. In my opinion, he is the wrong guy for the job and I look forward to the day when the federation wakes up and replaces him.
    I've been told that Gokhberg was sent to get some experience before U20 in January...
    Hope to see him getting the whole BUL game and some of MEX, if that's not the case, I can't see why not Nir...

  19. #19
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Nir and Max both have some good raw ability, but they need training - desperately - with a professional goaltending coach, preferably one with former pro or NCAA experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Estonia usually destroys Israel in IIHF competition, so I expected this game to be particularly ugly. But 19-1? Really? That's terrible.
    Similar result to the last time they played, actually, at the 2014 World Championship in Division II Group A, where Estonia won 16-3. And Israel had pretty much their full roster that night, including several of the high profile dual Israeli-Canadian citizens.

    http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/383/IHM383911_74_3_0.pdf

  21. #21
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Yes, except that Estonia likewise had a much stronger roster at the World Championship.

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    BTW,
    I think the problem with Israeli team is not the Goalies as it is the Defense...
    I think the team need Dmitry Gromkov as an assistant coach to work some defensive tactic into it

    You can see that the guys just don't know what to do and where to be on defense, and most of the goals against them scored after a pass to an open player while the D man or the C just looking at the puck...

  23. #23
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    That is partly that the defenseman lack raw ability at this level, but a large part of it is a failure by the coaching staff to employ a suitable system based upon the available players. It is also a failure by the coaching staff to select a stronger roster, because Israel has a good number of better D-men available, but Eisler refused to invite them.

    Frankly, I think the national team program needs new blood....a new head coach and new assistants.

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    I honestly think that Eisler is much better then Perron, specially for the younger guys...
    Maybe you're right, we need a coach that will start everything from scratch and pick the team himself and not let politics get in...

  25. #25
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Eisler DOES pick the team himself for the most part. When I refer to politics, I am referring to HIS politics. He doesn't want the Israeli veterans based in North America because they don't come to the once or twice per year training camps that he has in Israel. That's ridiculous. They live and play in Canada, where they can be exposed to better competition, and be on the ice more often. That doesn't hurt Israeli hockey. It helps it. He kept a venerable veteran D-man (Ran Oz), a literal legend of Israeli hockey, nailed to the bench in last year's worlds, while putting out guys with much lesser pedigrees (& skills). Ran is 38 now, but still a much better D-man than any Israeli based in Israel. Ran, by the way, learned his hockey in Israel, grew up there, speaks and writes fluent Hebrew, served in the IDF, and still has family there. He's as real an Israeli as it gets. But he didn't come to Eisler's camp in Israel. Politics.

    Towards the end, Perron was just as bad. The man is a Stanley Cup winning legend, and was a great coach for Israel for years. But he was tired the last couple of years, and basically showed up, didn't even really coach, and just played his favorite veterans and refused to give new guys any ice time or chances to make a difference.

    Neither extreme is good. An all new coaching staff - head coach and assistants - is needed before Israel will see any improvement to its national teams program's performance, whether at the mens', U20 or U18 levels.

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    I think that the team should really take down it's age average,
    I mean, we should release the Levies, Frenkel and Botbol.
    In a few year you can add Kniter, Avneri, Loginov and even Oz to this list...
    We should get Shrbatov back and hope that Levin will join.
    That way we can have a younger team with Aharonovich, Spektor and Kapulkin
    And here you go, all i can think of are 5 Forwards, can't name one Israeli D-man that I think is good enough and here is the reason why:
    No Defense coaching in Israel..........

  27. #27
    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
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    Serbian roster looks good. There are about 10 names that sounds as real hockey players, and some youngs, perhaps with good future. Chances are 50%-50% for 1st place Spain, Iceland, Serbia. Only Popravko is our Russian emigrant. So, not bad if it is known that North America is full of Serbian players with roots from ex YU areas.
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    IHF Member MDani's Avatar
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    About the first game: I don't understand why the Bulgarian coach changed goalie Dimitrov in midgame? He stopped 16 from 17 shots, and I think he is te best goalie what Bulgaria can have now.

    About the second one: Games like this makes no sense for both team. Estonia should bring their U20 guys (Like Israel and Bulgaria, to prepare for U20WorldC.), and a line of adult players (Rooba, some guys who play at home or Finnis lower leagues) just to make sure in this group.

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    IHF Member sloklo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudes89 View Post
    Similar result to the last time they played, actually, at the 2014 World Championship in Division II Group A, where Estonia won 16-3. And Israel had pretty much their full roster that night, including several of the high profile dual Israeli-Canadian citizens.

    http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/383/IHM383911_74_3_0.pdf
    But to be honest that was not the real difference between the Eestis and Israel. The Israeli team was quite good at that WC but mixed some very good and stabile performances with some moreless cathastrophic. Why Israel played that way was confusing.

    As for this Israeli team I don´t know. It might be so that they are not better.
    BTW, is the Israeli League running? Has the season started yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDani View Post
    About the first game: I don't understand why the Bulgarian coach changed goalie Dimitrov in midgame? He stopped 16 from 17 shots, and I think he is te best goalie what Bulgaria can have now.

    About the second one: Games like this makes no sense for both team. Estonia should bring their U20 guys (Like Israel and Bulgaria, to prepare for U20WorldC.), and a line of adult players (Rooba, some guys who play at home or Finnis lower leagues) just to make sure in this group.
    I agree... its not that they're gonna get to the Olympics LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloklo View Post
    But to be honest that was not the real difference between the Eestis and Israel. The Israeli team was quite good at that WC but mixed some very good and stabile performances with some moreless cathastrophic. Why Israel played that way was confusing.

    As for this Israeli team I don´t know. It might be so that they are not better.
    BTW, is the Israeli League running? Has the season started yet?
    Yeah, both Top division and Div 1 running...

  32. #32
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Wow, 26-0 win for Estonia over Bulgaria. Mexico also shut out Israel 5-0.
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

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    IHF Member BASSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Wow, 26-0 win for Estonia over Bulgaria. Mexico also shut out Israel 5-0.
    What you expected? Those guys from Bulgaria just watched the games in Belgrade (Continental Cup), and when I was say CSKA Sofia has 10+ imports I wanted to prove that only imports played the game. Mostly! Next time, if they will have money, could be better to play with home guys insted of 2 lines of Slovakian, Russian, & etc players.
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  34. #34
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Releasing Botbol I understand. He's not effective for anything above IIHF D.3. That's not a knock on him, mind you, it's simply that's the level he happens to be at.

    Get rid of Frenkel? Why? He's only 31 and is Israel's all-time leading scorer. He is light years ahead of anyone on the roster at this tournament. Isaac Levy is still effective as a checking O-man at the IIHF D.2B and even the D.2A level. He's first about to hit his mid-30's and has some gas left in the tank. Shlomi Levy is about to turn 40, so he would be the guy you would naturally think to get rid of. But guess what - he was the second best face-off man in the entire IIHF D.2B world championship this past April. At the IIHF D.2A and especially the D.2B levels, guys can play until they are 40 with no problem.

  35. #35
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Sloklo, the Israeli League has started. Two games have been played so far. This Israeli roster is lacking all of Israel's top players except for Loginov, Aharonovich and Spektor. The guys who are there are trying their best, but this is not close to the top Israeli roster.

    Gokhberg played a very good game against Mexico, which was nice to see. As I mentioned, both he and Nir Tichon are young and have real potential, but they need some professional goaltending instruction. I would like to see the federation invest in sending both of them to a goaltending camp in Canada for a week twice per year for the next couple of years. In the meantime, Loginov is a good goalie for IIHF D.2 tournaments and has a few good years left, though he is getting up there into his later thirties.

    Half a Ref, you can't possibly be serious about getting rid of Avneri. He's Israel's top defenseman other than Daniel Spivak and possibly Ron Oz, and he just turned 30. On top of that, he does a tremendous amount of work for the national team programs and the Israeli leagues behind the scenes in both fundraising and logistics (obtaining club jerseys for league teams, socks for the players, etc., with some of the money raised, as well as coordinating travel, etc.).

    Why dump Kniter? He would be the fourth or fifth best O-man at this tournament for Israel had they brought him, plus he can play defense.

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    In a few years...... yes, I hope that today's U18 guys will get to a level that will allow us to put up a young senior team.
    There's a lot of talent there but they need experience.

  37. #37
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Here's the full match highlight (or lowlights, if you're a Bulgaria fan) of Estonia-Bulgaria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdDnehCVe8
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

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    huge difference between them

  39. #39
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    Just the difference between Div1/B and Div2/B.
    Strange that while in the other gorup the teams from the Div2/A and there are quite entertainig games, here Estonia plays aggainst temas who are even happy when can get close their net... how such inequal seeding could happen.

  40. #40
    IHF Member partizanhk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDani View Post
    Just the difference between Div1/B and Div2/B.
    Strange that while in the other gorup the teams from the Div2/A and there are quite entertainig games, here Estonia plays aggainst temas who are even happy when can get close their net... how such inequal seeding could happen.
    It is simple....there are no teams like belgium, australia who are much better then izrael, bulgaria

  41. #41
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Israel, with its top roster, plays fine against both Belgium and Australia. In fact, Israel beat Australia the last time they faced them 2 or 3 years ago.

    Nice to see Israel's youngsters beat Bulgaria's youngsters today by a 5-2 score, coming back from a 2-1 third period deficit. A hat trick from Ilya Spektor and the game winner from Roey Aharonovich. And Max Gokhberg again played very well in net. He has a bright future. Now for the federation to spend some money to send him to Canada a few times for real goalie camps, and Israel could have a goalie for the future.

  42. #42
    IHF Member partizanhk's Avatar
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    Izrael with full roster is good team, but on this tournament they are far away from that level

  43. #43
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Unsurprisingly, Estonia cruised to the next round, defeating Mexico 11-3 in the penultimate game
    Twitter: @CSmeeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Israel sent an all-Israeli League roster except for Aharonovich, and only three lines. Very young roster as well, for the most part.

    Estonia usually destroys Israel in IIHF competition, so I expected this game to be particularly ugly. But 19-1? Really? That's terrible.

    The Israeli defense for this tournament is not remotely suited for IIHF competition except for Margoulis (ironically one of the few guys here at this event for Israel in his thirties).

    Max Gokhberg is very young and comparatively inexperienced, and probably shouldn't be exposed to this level of competition yet; they should have taken Nir Tichon from Rishon (Loginov's backup on Rishon) instead.

    The biggest problem I have is with the Israeli head coach, Derek Eisler. In my opinion, he did not do a good job with the national teams last year, and this is an unacceptable result, even with a very young roster. This is partly because of the style of game he employs, but also because he refuses to use the Israeli-Canadian dual citizens based in North America who have given their blood, sweat, tears and money out of their own pockets to the program for many years. He disrespects them when he does include them on the roster, and barely gives them ice time. He plays favorites and politics with the roster he does use. He puts players in situations that they don't belong in, which is a misreading of his available talent base. In my opinion, he is the wrong guy for the job and I look forward to the day when the federation wakes up and replaces him.

    BTW,
    Nir moved to Devils-2 to get full Top Division game times instead of being a backup goalie.

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