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Thread: 2016 IIHF World Div.IA Championship - Katowice, Poland; 23rd-29th.Apr

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    At least something ;-)
    Last year about this time Austria also won a worldchampionship game 3:2 after shoot-out. Against Switzerland. Now it's Korea. What a descent - Korea didn't make a lot of mistakes, played with lot of heart and good discipline and used the best chances (courtesy of their opponents), other than that they aren't exactly good. After this showing I wouldn't bet a cent on Austria finishing top 2. This team lacks quality throughout, with exception of a few guys who can lead and create it's a squad made up from role players and grinders who are not used to have a lot of resposibility. And with Brian Lebler the only true scorer is coming off a dismal season and shows why. This won't be enough.
    Well, Austria is still the favorite for promotion alongside Slovenia. The main rivals, the Italians seem a little bit stronger now than they looked a year ago, but their roster is still worse than this Austrian roster. And Japan doesn't seem particularly strong either. Also, the Austrians have the advantage of facing Slovenia last, when it will probably not matter for them, so you might have a chance to beat them. I still expect Austria to promote, but only because this is the worst quality DIV1A ever (not by much, but I think that ever since the reorganisation took place, the overall strength if participating teams was better than this).

    I did not see the whole game, but based on the parts that I did, creating chances was not the issue, but finishing was problematic. I understand that this roster lacks scorers, but so does the Italian and probably the Polish one, so low-scoring games are to be expected, where this team should be able to win.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajna View Post
    And Japan doesn't seem particularly strong either.
    I should preface this by saying I'm not able to watch any of the games over here.

    For the first period against Slovenia, it was a 1-0 game. Yes, Slovenia is probably the best team here, especially given Rex's analysis of his Austrian side and that would have contributed to the final result. The change in goaltender from Fukufuji to the less experienced Onada wouldn't have helped Japan at all. That's not to defend Japan as they clearly didn't play to their potential - much as Austria hadn't.

    Division I doesn't allow teams to have a night off so the teams that come in with all cylinders firing have a major advantage. Let's see if Austria, Japan, and Poland recover - normally they'd be in contention for silver (and Austria for gold) here.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    I'm a little bit embarassed right now...After the second goal AUT was paralyzed and the Asians were buzzing all around...
    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    At least something ;-)
    Korea didn't make a lot of mistakes, played with lot of heart and good discipline and used the best chances (courtesy of their opponents), other than that they aren't exactly good.
    That was also the reaction following our game against them back in February (even though the Danish head coach had said that the match would be a difficult one) so you are definitely not alone :)

    But as Whawks say, what Austria faced yesterday sounds a lot like what Denmark also experienced playing Korea at the EIHC in R°dovre, and if the latter had been a bit more effective, we could have lost that game.

    And Whawks, as much as I like to question the ability of the Norwegians, they did beat the Koreans with more than one goal

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    Good question. He played well in the two warm up games vs. Lithuania and S. Korea, even scored a goal. Personally I fear inner hockey politics are showing their ugly head again in Poland. Lyszczarczyk wasn't brought up through the SMS youth academy (most NT players were if not all) and this could have contributed because skill wise Lyszczarczyk could have easily made onto this team. Add a touch of pride since Lyszczarczyk didn't accept the call up for the U20 WC and there are your reasons. It's sad really, makes me not want to support this team knowing this kind of garbage is going on still.
    Why should a U18 player be considered as a player who should be missed from the senior squad?

  5. #55
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    I do hope Korean "pass a passport" program is going to crush and burn as soon as possible. Six foreign players? Why stop at six? Why not deliver 22 passports to North Americans and have the "national team" composed from the best that money can buy? What's next? United Arab Emirates in division 1A?

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    Hello! Yesterday Italy won as I expected, today I see crazy odds too.

    Slovenia - Italy, why on earth Italy is getting 6.36 for the victory? Makes absolutely no sense, but after saying that I liketo bet on Italy+1.5 goals odds of 2.21 by pinnacle. So Italy can lose with 1 goal and this bet is correct.

    Next match is Poland - South Korea, Koreans are getting odds of 5.00 by marathonbet. Yesterday they managed to get a point against top 1-2 seeded Austria and stats of that match were fairly even. I also like to take handicap bet here so my bet would be South Korea+1.5 goals with odds of 1.91 by pinnacle.

  7. #57
    IHF Member Acroni767's Avatar
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    Famass good luck with your bets but you have minor chances to win both.I agree thet odds are bit strange and S.Korea may really cause big troubles to Poland especially now when they loose first game vs Italy.Slovenia have many injured players for the first and second line while we are still waiting for a first line center Sabolič who still play in the Czech Extraliga final with Sparta.Muršak from CSKA is injured and same with vetran players like Rodman brothers and many more.Still I belive in our team to win this competition clearly ......
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  8. #58
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    The Italy-Slovenia game is going to be an interesting one. Italy has nothing to lose, since Slovenia is the undoubted favourite, but if Italy manages to not fall back by 2-3 goals early in the game, everything is possible. I certainly liked the way the Italian team showed up yesterday against Poland.

    On a sidenote, 35-year old goalkeeper Frederic Cloutier (played in Liiga in the past season) will get his first start ever for Team Italy.

  9. #59
    IHF Member Acroni767's Avatar
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    @Drax there are not just "passports" - all these north American players actually live in South Korea with the families and play hockey there for a long time now....
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  10. #60
    IHF Member Acroni767's Avatar
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    @PhilHell37 Which TV channell shows Italy games live?
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acroni767 View Post
    @PhilHell37 Which TV channell shows Italy games live?
    Unfortunately no Italian channel shows the game, but there are plenty of streams of the Slovenian and Polish TV on which you can watch the games.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acroni767 View Post
    @Drax there are not just "passports" - all these north American players actually live in South Korea with the families and play hockey there for a long time now....
    And they speak and read Korean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    What's next? United Arab Emirates in division 1A?
    Drax, being from handball-mad Croatia, you would know it wouldn't be the UAE in Div IA. It would be Qatar.
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  13. #63
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    Slovenia beats Italy 3-1. Despite the result, overall it was a good perfomancy by Italy. Excellent in our own zone and dangerous with some breakaways. Strong national team debut also by goalkeeper Frederic Cloutier. However, the PP was terrible.

    The game on Tuesday against Austria will probably be the decisive match to determine who gets the second spot to move up.

  14. #64
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    Don't feel too badly Wolfgang. Austria struggled to beat South Korea, but the Koreans had, I believe, six naturalized non-Koreans on their roster. South Korea is the new Italy of the 1980's and 1990's. They may have naturalized these guys in accordance with the IIHF rules, so I'm not accusing them of breaking the rules. But they've certainly broken the spirit of what international ice hockey competition between nations is supposed to be. At least the Italians used to stack their team with dual citizens of Italian heritage. They'll probably stay up at the expense of Japan, but I hope the Japanese beat them and they get relegated.

    Conesy gave us this link over in the 2018 Olympics thread: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...204320376.html
    Last edited by Marc Brunengraber; 24-04-2016 at 17:29.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Don't feel too badly Wolfgang. Austria struggled to beat South Korea, but the Koreans had, I believe, six naturalized non-Koreans on their roster. South Korea is the new Italy of the 1980's and 1990's. They may have naturalized these guys in accordance with the IIHF rules, so I'm not accusing them of breaking the rules. But they've certainly broken the spirit of what international ice hockey competition between nations is supposed to be. At least the Italians used to stack their team with dual citizens of Italian heritage. They'll probably stay up at the expense of Japan, but I hope the Japanese beat them and they get relegated.

    Conesy gave us this link over in the 2018 Olympics thread: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...204320376.html
    Well, calling them the new Italy of the 90's might be a bit of an overstatement. In the 90's Italys't team had 16-17 Canadians, the Koreans are still a long way from such numbers.

  16. #66
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Fair enough. But 1/3 of their team are still non-Koreans who don't even have Korean ethnicity.

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    Korea with a 2-0 lead after 40 minutes.

  18. #68
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    Poland currently down 2-0 to S. Korea in a shocker so far, Poland beat S. Korea 3-0 in a warm up but this Poland team is playing horrible, worst I've seen in a few years even from years in Div. 1B. The defense is the weakest point, even the game vs. Italy showed that. The forwards cannot finish any chances created, like they have no conviction of what they want to do. Very sad display, relegation seems very possible if they lose this game.

  19. #69
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    Looks like Korea's win over Poland should keep them in Division IA for next year, while suddenly Poland is fighting to not be relegated. Certainly not the start the host nation, and one who is in the final Olympic qualification, was hoping for.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Fair enough. But 1/3 of their team are still non-Koreans who don't even have Korean ethnicity.
    I don't like naturalized players in national teams and obviously these 6 players in team Korea are boosting the strength. But for me there's no difference to teams like Croatia or Israel. I know most of the North American players from these teams had a grandma from Croatia or Israel but they are boosting the team a lot. And they have nothing to do with the hockey program in these countries. Croatia would have beaten Romania without them but that would have been their only win in Div 1B. The same with Israel. Marc, isn't the result of Team Israel the real strength of the hockey program in Israel? I know we can argue a lot about the difference ofnaturalized players and players with ethnical origins. For me a national team should represent the quality of the hockey program within a country but Korea is doing they same then other nations. Even Austria benefits from a naturalized player like Brian Lebler. It's only one player but a very important one for Austria. The same happens in Belarus, France, Germany etc...For me even one naturalized player is one player too much...

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    You can say a player (let's say Nathan Perkovich) has some connection to Croatia cause of his ancestors. But in fact it makes no difference cause he isn't the result of the hockey program in Croatia. But it's only my point of view...when Len Soccio was playing for Germany several years ago hockey newspapers in Germany argued that he identifies with German hockey and thats reason enough to represent the country. Also a point of view but for me it feels like cheating.

  22. #72
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    Yesterday Austria beat Japan 3:1 to secure second place after two game days. Against a rather weak Japanese team the Austrians largely controlled the game, made less mistakes (at least no such hilarious ones as against Korea) but still the performance was very unimpressive. AUT rotated a lot in the JAP zone but hardly ever succeeded to get a man open in really dangerous position as the Asians could confine the play mostly along the boards although I thought more than once there should have been an obstruction call against Japan which didn't happen. Austria got the lead early in the game on a low shot by Niki Petrik which went through the legs of Onoda. Despite being the much more active team AUT couldn't increase the lead and late in the period Japan tied it with a nicely deflected shot on their first powerplay. In the middle stanza AUT started similar than in the first applying some pressure but later on lost track and the game got very even though with little highlights. The third period saw the so far best hockey the Austrians played in this tournament (though Japan had two big chances in this phase that Starkbaum saved splendidly) and getting the lead again after a fast attack finished off by Brian Lebler on assists by Manuel Geier and Raphael Herburger. Little later the Austrian first line struck again when Herburger put in the rebound of a hard shot by Brian Lebler. In the last minutes Japan threw all they had into the offense created good pressure but got close to score only once when a shot slid between Starkbaum's legs and eventually crossed the goal line - little after the refs had whistled the play dead.
    With now 5 points AUT at least won't get relegated (well, there was something ;-). The game against Italy will be nerve wrecking I guess and I am not very optimistic about the chances. The Italians have almost all they got and the experience of the likes of Egger, Helfer, Scandella will be a factor against this young Austrian team.

  23. #73
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    Robert Sabolič finished with his club season* and will be in the squad for Slovenia against Poland. He is expected to join Tičar and Jeglič on the first line.

    *Czech Extraliga Final - Liberec 4:2 Sparta Praha

  24. #74
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    Today' s battle between Italy and Austria is goint to be interesting. The Austrians are the favourites, but their perfomance so far in the tournament was far from convincing. The Italians on the other hand have no pressure. Nobody really expects them to win and have had a good start into the tournament. If Italy can gets its PP working, I think we may see a surprise today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilHell37 View Post
    Today' s battle between Italy and Austria is goint to be interesting. The Austrians are the favourites, but their perfomance so far in the tournament was far from convincing. The Italians on the other hand have no pressure. Nobody really expects them to win and have had a good start into the tournament. If Italy can gets its PP working, I think we may see a surprise today.
    I don't really know why Austria would be the favourites. If AUT had at least one or two of the NHLers (including Thomas Raffl) plus a handful of the many injured or retired players who are clearly more capable than most of the selected players, I'd agree. But as it is and that got obvious with the problems they have in releasing attacks and the turnovers created in the process as well as the lack of creativity to translate pressure in the offensive zone into clear scoring opportunities the inexperience of the team compared to Italy is also obvious and that makes the blue team at least not an underdog (if not the favourite). The Italian players have way more international experience and the Azzurri are the older and physically stronger team. I would not like it but a loss today (and thus very likely not getting promoted) is not a far fetched scenario at all.

  26. #76
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    Aaaaaand Austria beat Italy 4-2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Aaaaaand Austria beat Italy 4-2
    And Poland leads Slovenia 4-1 in the third periode

  28. #78
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    So a win tomorrow and Austria could be back in the Top Division, while the winner of Slovenia-Korea likely will follow them.

  29. #79
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    Hmm, after the game I have to revoke my skepticism about Austria's chances against Italy. The Italians were pretty much awful today, no speed, no aggressiveness and many, many small mistakes that made their lives hard. The Austrians had a clear advantage based predominantely on better skating and speed and they used the chances resulting from the dominance very well. Andreas Kristler openend the scoring by deflecting a shot from the blue line by Fabio Hofer. BEfore Austria should have had a first powerplay after an Italian defenseman delivered an imho nasty check into the back of Stefan Geier which sent him head first into the boards. Halfway through the game Krister added his second when he put home a rebound in a multi-player scramble in front of the Italian net. Late in the period after a penalty for Italy Austrias pp struck quickly after the first faceoff when Konstantin Komarek one timed a nice cross feed by Stefan Ulmer past Bernard from the perimeter of the face-off circle. In the last period when Niki iPetrik had to pull out after a blocked shot injured his hand during an Italian PP Lukas Haudum who hadn't seen any shifts until then showed good skills and vision in his very first shift of the game and set up Stefan Bacher from behind the goal line and the defenseman hammerd it under the crossbar.
    Later on Italy got two goals, both scored by veteran defenders (Alexander Egger and Armin Helfer) but it was definitely too little too late for them.
    Watched a little bit of the evening game as well (hard to see through the constant advertising banners on this shady streaming site though), no idea what the Slovenians really did...probably drinking yesterday. The Poles' win certainly makes this tournament very interesting...

  30. #80
    IHF Member Conesy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    The Poles' win certainly makes this tournament very interesting...
    It's the beauty of these tournaments, eh?
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  31. #81
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    Italy had a somewhat good start, but from the 10th minute on the Austrians controlled the game. In the second period Italy was absolutely terrible, made 3-4 avoidable mistakes and the game was over. At least the two goals in the final minutes make the result less painful.

    I expect a strong response tomorrow against Japan. A young team in rebuild-mode can also hava a bad game, but they now need to prove tomorrow that they deserve the credit they earned in the first two games. With wins against Japan and South Korea Italy could still win bronze, which would be a good accomplishment by this team.

  32. #82
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    With such a bad play today vs Poland I can honestly say I am not so optimistic anymore .....
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  33. #83
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    I kinda hope Japan beats Italy today, to make relegation battle wide open.
    Would make the second half of the tourny more interesting without any meaningless games. They did it last year, so it's possible again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghoebi View Post
    I kinda hope Japan beats Italy today, to make relegation battle wide open.
    Would make the second half of the tourny more interesting without any meaningless games. They did it last year, so it's possible again.
    If Japan beats Poland and they both have 3 points, they can still stay in Div 1A?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartecky View Post
    If Japan beats Poland and they both have 3 points, they can still stay in Div 1A?
    If they is Japan, yes of course. When two teams have the same number of points the one that has won the game between them is ranked first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    If they is Japan, yes of course. When two teams have the same number of points the one that has won the game between them is ranked first.
    So the relegation battle (if Poland loses to Austria) is still on. The same is true for promotion.

    POL - AUT 1 (3 points)

    ITA - KOR 1 (3 points)
    AUT - SLO X2 (1-2 points)
    POL - JAP 1 (3 points)

    Table:
    SLO 11
    POL 9
    ITA 9
    AUT 9
    KOR 7
    JAP 0

    Tiebrakers among POL-ITA-AUT would decide... Am I right?
    KOR is still in the mix...

  37. #87
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    Slovenia just beat Korea 5:1 and move to first place with 9 pts and the game against Austria left. IF Poland loses to Austria (no matter how) Korea can't surpass Austria (who will be 2nd in worst case if they lose to Slovenia and first if they win) and can finish 2nd in the best case by beating Italy in regulation time provided Slovenia loses to Austria in regulation time. And of course if Poland loses to Austria (in regulation time) the game between Japan and Poland will decide who is going to be relegated. If Poland scores at least a point against Austria, Japan is relegated.

    In the case of Poland, Italy and Austria ending up with 9pts each it would come down to goal difference in the games among these teams, right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Slovenia just beat Korea 5:1 and move to first place with 9 pts and the game against Austria left. IF Poland loses to Austria (no matter how) Korea can't surpass Austria (who will be 2nd in worst case if they lose to Slovenia and first if they win) and can finish 2nd in the best case by beating Italy in regulation time provided Slovenia loses to Austria in regulation time. And of course if Poland loses to Austria (in regulation time) the game between Japan and Poland will decide who is going to be relegated. If Poland scores at least a point against Austria, Japan is relegated.

    In the case of Poland, Italy and Austria ending up with 9pts each it would come down to goal difference in the games among these teams, right.
    Intresting.
    I think SLO and AUT are the best teams of the tournament, KOR is the biggest surprise, POL biggest disappointment, ITA & JAP as expected.
    My predictions:
    1. AUT, 2. SLO, 3. ITA, 4. KOR, 5. POL, 6. JAP

  39. #89
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    So far Korea certainly is the big surprise and that's not going to change anymore. Poland and Japan seem to battle it out for the disappointment award with Poland having made a big move to avoid it yesterday. If the Poles get a point tonight or even win Austria gets in contention as well concerning disappointment ;-)

  40. #90
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    Italy found a good response today against Japan after the poor perfomance yesterday. They still looked a bit shaky in the first period, which ended 1-1. A beatiful stickhandling display by Japanese DEL-export Shuhei Kuji gave the Asians the lead and Simon Kosnter tied the game up on a rebound.
    In the second period Italy took control of the game and earned a well-deserved 3-1 lead with goals by Anton Bernard (great work behind the the net by Markus Gander for the assist) and Joachim Ramoser (on a great individual effort by Giulio Scandella). In the final period Italy did a pretty good job controlling the lead and goalkeeper Frederic Cloutier was there when needed. 20-year old Ramoser was awarded best player for Italy.

    Unless Poland upsets Austria today, Italy and South Korea will battle for bronze on Friday. A bronze medal would be a good accomplishment by this young team. However, the Koreans are for sure not an easy team to beat. Similar to Japan they have a team with lots of good skaters, but Korea also the 6 Canadians who give them the scoring/clutch factor as well.

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    With UKR advancing from 1B next year, 2 relegates from Elite Div both POL & KOR are going to be at the edge of relegation. KOR at least made an effort and uses some naturalized players. With Poland 1A seems to be to high Div overall. They are more like GBR level.

  42. #92
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    Poland leads 1:0 against AUT after the first. Austria largely controlled the game but then defenseman Markus Schlacher passed without any pressure whatsoever passed the puck to a Polish attacker and in a nice combination the hosts scored. Immediately after AUT took a (imho phantom) penalty and got under big pressure. In the last few minutes the Austrians got back to more offensive scenes but failed to get the really good chances.
    This will be tough, I think AUT are the better skaters but the Poles had more drive to the net and their attacks are dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Poland leads 1:0 against AUT after the first. Austria largely controlled the game but then defenseman Markus Schlacher passed without any pressure whatsoever passed the puck to a Polish attacker and in a nice combination the hosts scored. Immediately after AUT took a (imho phantom) penalty and got under big pressure. In the last few minutes the Austrians got back to more offensive scenes but failed to get the really good chances.
    This will be tough, I think AUT are the better skaters but the Poles had more drive to the net and their attacks are dangerous.
    That is surprising. 22-15 in shots for Poland. Hope they will win and make the promotion games more exciting.

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    Complete breakdown of the Austrian game. Very lucky not to be down by more than one, great performance by Starkbaum in goal. Austria took plenty of penalties, the Polish PP works well and by being locked in the own zone the Austrians really lost it and produced a series of giveaways so that Ratushny even had to take a time-out. This doesn't look good at all for team AUT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartecky View Post
    That is surprising. 22-15 in shots for Poland. Hope they will win and make the promotion games more exciting.

    http://wmia2016.iihf.com/LiveTicker_...ticker_game_12
    Unless Austria manages to come back in today's game, all countries with the exception of Japan could actually earn promotion come Friday, so interesting indeed.

  46. #96
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    Three points for Poland, thus Japan will play next year in the DIV.1B

  47. #97
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    Very disappointing performance by the Austrians and a very deserved win for the hosts. With the point AUT has lost to Korea getting a point from the game vs. Slovenia on Saturday is a must for AUT and one point will most likely not cut it. As the Slovenians will not allow themselves another slip like yesterday against Poland I except Austria too finally exit the elevator - just at the wrong stop. To make matters worse after losing Niki Petrik yesterday (broken finger after a blocked shot) Konstantin Komarek suffered what looked like a shoulder injury today and I would be surprised if he can return.

  48. #98
    IHF Member PhilHell37's Avatar
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    Wow, Friday will be interesting!

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilHell37 View Post
    Wow, Friday will be interesting!
    Yes it will, unfortunately ;-)

  50. #100
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    So we are looking at the following scenarios:

    #1 - Slovenia needs one point against Austria
    #2 - Austra needs two points against Slovenia
    #3 - Korea needs three points against Italy and Austria to lose or Slovenia to lose in regulation.
    #4 - Italy needs three points against Korea and Austria to lose in regulation.
    #5 - Poland needs three points against Japan, Slovenia or Austria to lose in regulation and a OT win for Italy against Korea.
    Last edited by Marras; 28-04-2016 at 00:24. Reason: See post #103

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