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Thread: 2018 IIHF World Championships Div IIIQ

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    2018 IIHF World Championships Div IIIQ

    Good to see that Bosnia are back in and hosting this event ;

    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/c...s/2018-events/

    Not sure why it is IIIQ and not IIIB now that there are 4 teams.

    Geoff

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffH View Post
    Good to see that Bosnia are back in and hosting this event ;

    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/c...s/2018-events/

    Not sure why it is IIIQ and not IIIB now that there are 4 teams.

    Geoff
    I think the World Championships are officially restricted to 46 teams, though we had an 8-team Division III last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffH View Post
    Not sure why it is IIIQ and not IIIB now that there are 4 teams.

    Geoff
    The system is just inconsistent. There is no connection with number of teams. Lowest groups are:
    Men: Div III Q (4 teams)
    U20: Div III Q (3 teams)
    U18: Div III B (3 teams)
    Women: Div II B Q (5 teams)
    WW18: Div I B Q (5 teams)

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    Men’s DivIIIQ starts on the 25th. Hope all teams make it. It will be first WC appearances for TKM and KUW.

    http://www.iihf.com/competition/643/statistics/

    Geoff
    Last edited by GeoffH; 21-02-2018 at 22:36.

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    Rosters now showing for all four teams so it looks as though they are all ready to go.

    Geoff

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    It seems that Bosnia didn't hold a National Championship last year. It this is true, why did the IIHF allow them to participate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoPens View Post
    It seems that Bosnia didn't hold a National Championship last year. It this is true, why did the IIHF allow them to participate?
    I would not say it for 100%...usually we get very few info about Bosnia, as their federation started to properly update (more-less) their web- and FB recently. Usually it was their former player/coach Kevin Auerbach who updated us on this forum, but he left BiH last year.
    On the other hand, I think on this level very few countries have more than a few rookie tournament-like championships, barely anything close to what strictly a championship is. I think IIHF just gives a green light if you have at least one proper rink and anything what can be called as "championship." Bosnia has a rink (Zetra - even if with 2-3 months of ice) and some sort of championship where games - as I remember - are played without stoping the clock and with full amateur rules (no slapshot, no full-body contact or checking at board, etc.)

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    There was a championhsip last season, but as said, there were no updates on it in any media. There is one this year too, but only with three teams. Two of the players from BH roster are semi professionals who play abroad, in Sweden I think - goalie Hećirbegović and forward Mirza Omer. Their coaches are both legends of Bosnian hockey who played there in 80s, the golden days of HK Bosna. They are Canadians, Jokat and Jamieson. I believe that they did good job in preparing the team but I still think that they won't be able to beat neither Turkmenistan nor UAE.
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    Very hard to know how strong Turkmenistan will be. I make Bosnia favourites with Turkmenistan and UAE joint second.

    Hoping for a good competitive event.

    Geoff

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    Dic 3

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffH View Post
    Very hard to know how strong Turkmenistan will be. I make Bosnia favourites with Turkmenistan and UAE joint second.

    Hoping for a good competitive event.

    Geoff

    There are rumours that Georgian are not taking part this year at the IIHF Tournament!!!

    Greetings,
    Rowan

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    Hi all,

    I was in Bosnia last year, I am not there this year. Last year it was decided to switch to a four team 3v3 national championship and then the finals would merge all four teams into two (1+4, 2+3). In previous years, there weren't enough players to make four proper rosters as many players would not show up, 3v3 made this much easier. We also held two games in the same hour since ice is relatively expensive and the season is so short (45 days of ice) so rather than only 2 of 3 5v5 teams playing, we would always have all four 3v3 teams playing. To the best of my knowledge, there was a league this year that was not organized by the federation. Once again, it was 3v3 on the new 3v3 sized ice rink. None of the players on the national team participated.

    There was a major riff last year just before World Championships between the players + coaching staff, and the president of the federation. Ultimately the players asked for certain changes, which the president did not agree to, so the players and staff did not go. This year, you will see the roster is very different from previous tournaments. Many players have been called out of retirement, some have been asked to play even though they really cannot skate, some were promised things and then were cut a day before the tournament, some were flown in from abroad where they are currently working and then sent back because their flight was delayed. There are also three new players who are illegal, however apparently the IIHF has signed off on them, despite them not fulfilling the two year rule, two of them having never stepped foot in the country for domestic championships and never having put their transfer cards in before this season. Things in BiH are a mess...

    Based on my experience there, UAE should win the division. When we played in 2015, the game was close between us. They were missing a few players due to illness, injury and work commitments as they had just played in CCoA, on the flip side, we didn't have any of the "Ilidza" players. Anything is possible with these three new players coming for Bosnia, they should compensate a bit for the lack of 12 core NT players choosing not to represent their country. That should be the gold medal game. Turkmenistan and Kuwait, not sure about.

    If anyone has any questions or wants me to elaborate further, feel free to let me know.

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by auerbachk View Post
    Hi all,

    I was in Bosnia last year, I am not there this year. Last year it was decided to switch to a four team 3v3 national championship and then the finals would merge all four teams into two (1+4, 2+3). In previous years, there weren't enough players to make four proper rosters as many players would not show up, 3v3 made this much easier. We also held two games in the same hour since ice is relatively expensive and the season is so short (45 days of ice) so rather than only 2 of 3 5v5 teams playing, we would always have all four 3v3 teams playing. To the best of my knowledge, there was a league this year that was not organized by the federation. Once again, it was 3v3 on the new 3v3 sized ice rink. None of the players on the national team participated.

    There was a major riff last year just before World Championships between the players + coaching staff, and the president of the federation. Ultimately the players asked for certain changes, which the president did not agree to, so the players and staff did not go. This year, you will see the roster is very different from previous tournaments. Many players have been called out of retirement, some have been asked to play even though they really cannot skate, some were promised things and then were cut a day before the tournament, some were flown in from abroad where they are currently working and then sent back because their flight was delayed. There are also three new players who are illegal, however apparently the IIHF has signed off on them, despite them not fulfilling the two year rule, two of them having never stepped foot in the country for domestic championships and never having put their transfer cards in before this season. Things in BiH are a mess...

    Based on my experience there, UAE should win the division. When we played in 2015, the game was close between us. They were missing a few players due to illness, injury and work commitments as they had just played in CCoA, on the flip side, we didn't have any of the "Ilidza" players. Anything is possible with these three new players coming for Bosnia, they should compensate a bit for the lack of 12 core NT players choosing not to represent their country. That should be the gold medal game. Turkmenistan and Kuwait, not sure about.

    If anyone has any questions or wants me to elaborate further, feel free to let me know.

    Kevin
    I don't know if you are comfortable saying, but who are the illegal players? There were a couple of people who raised my eyebrows on the preliminary roster, but none of them appear to be on the final roster as it is listed. Is it possible that the IIHF caught on and disallowed the illegal players?

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    I reached out to two of the Swedish-Bosnians to give them a heads up. They both said they had been cleared, one is playing and one isn't.

    So I suspect that the IIHF caught it and that's why two of three were left off, while the other who's transfer card was put through two years ago is playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auerbachk View Post
    Hi all,

    I was in Bosnia last year, I am not there this year. Last year it was decided to switch to a four team 3v3 national championship and then the finals would merge all four teams into two (1+4, 2+3). In previous years, there weren't enough players to make four proper rosters as many players would not show up, 3v3 made this much easier. We also held two games in the same hour since ice is relatively expensive and the season is so short (45 days of ice) so rather than only 2 of 3 5v5 teams playing, we would always have all four 3v3 teams playing. To the best of my knowledge, there was a league this year that was not organized by the federation. Once again, it was 3v3 on the new 3v3 sized ice rink. None of the players on the national team participated.

    There was a major riff last year just before World Championships between the players + coaching staff, and the president of the federation. Ultimately the players asked for certain changes, which the president did not agree to, so the players and staff did not go. This year, you will see the roster is very different from previous tournaments. Many players have been called out of retirement, some have been asked to play even though they really cannot skate, some were promised things and then were cut a day before the tournament, some were flown in from abroad where they are currently working and then sent back because their flight was delayed. There are also three new players who are illegal, however apparently the IIHF has signed off on them, despite them not fulfilling the two year rule, two of them having never stepped foot in the country for domestic championships and never having put their transfer cards in before this season. Things in BiH are a mess...

    Based on my experience there, UAE should win the division. When we played in 2015, the game was close between us. They were missing a few players due to illness, injury and work commitments as they had just played in CCoA, on the flip side, we didn't have any of the "Ilidza" players. Anything is possible with these three new players coming for Bosnia, they should compensate a bit for the lack of 12 core NT players choosing not to represent their country. That should be the gold medal game. Turkmenistan and Kuwait, not sure about.

    If anyone has any questions or wants me to elaborate further, feel free to let me know.

    Kevin
    Thanks for sharing your knowledge, a familiar story unfortunately amongst the new national teams. If only everyone could work together.

    Geoff

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    Quote Originally Posted by rowan View Post
    There are rumours that Georgian are not taking part this year at the IIHF Tournament!!!

    Greetings,
    Rowan
    That’s a pity, do you know the reason? Hope they can get back soon.

    Geoff

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    Türkmenistan had a good, impressive start, won without difficulties against UAE.

    I guess Bosnian goalie Haris Becirbegovic is a clean issue; he played in Swedish teams in all his life (and a season in Slohockey).

    Kevin, I know that Bosnia is a poor country with mess politics, but how goes for hockey now? Are there money (as politicians never spear on money if they can pose with sportmen, or at least in Hungary they don't ) or at least some will to solve the ice-time problem and reach out for the wider public? I saw that there was some marketing this time, with some celebrities and a popular band. Are there some progress, recruitment among young people, etc? Sorry for the tons of questions but the local Fed' not really provide anything (not to mention in English).
    (Maybe you can answer it in the Bosnian thread if it's too much OF here)

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    The hockey politics are probably worse than the countries. From the way the federation is organized and the responsibilities -- to the votes that each club has -- to the resources that the federation has/spends, it's all done backwards. As far as I know, the federation receives little money from the government. Since BiH has started in WC, they have received enough to cover flights to Turkey and that's about it. The president has a marketing firm and is very good at marketing the matches, 3 sellouts in 2014 (2 EBEL games, 1 international vs Turkey). So yes, there were people who attended the games but that doesn't solve the issue of a permanent ice rink in the country. The federation is interested in promoting the national team but without recruiting the youth. Vukovi and Medvjedi are recruiting kids and currently have about 150 players from U8 to U15, including boys and girls. There are only about 30-35 seniors in the country, so if you ask me maybe the focus should be on the 125 kids and not 30 seniors... The club Vukovi purchased a 3v3 sized ice rink and it has been operating this season from about mid October until mid April, by far the longest ice season they've ever had there in recent years.

    Please don't hesitate, I'm more than happy to answer any and all questions you guys have.

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    TKM 4 UAE 0
    BIH 8 KUW 1

    Looks like Wednesday’s TKM v BIH game will decide the winners.

    Geoff

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    All games live on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyz...49Oedokx9Xf2_w

    Turkmens seem like a strong favorites here, BH looked pretty unconvincing beside huge victory.
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    Today’s UAE v BIH game could be the closest game of the event. We will see!

    Geoff

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    TKM 24 KUW 2
    BIH 6 UAE 1

    Good win for BIH over UAE, thought it would have been closer. Think the Kuwaitis will agree with me that they should have stuck to the CCoA.

    Geoff

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    Wow, the Kuwaitis looked lost in that game. I am stunned that they actually scored 2 goals.

    I also watched part of the BIH-UAE game. The score was closer than it should have been. BIH dominated(at least when I was watching)At one point in the 3rd period, UAE had a 5 on 3 powerplay and did absolutely nothing. As soon as it was over, BIH scored.

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    Any predictions for the Turkmenistan-BIH game? I think Turkmenistan will advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auerbachk View Post
    Hi all,

    I was in Bosnia last year, I am not there this year. Last year it was decided to switch to a four team 3v3 national championship and then the finals would merge all four teams into two (1+4, 2+3). In previous years, there weren't enough players to make four proper rosters as many players would not show up, 3v3 made this much easier. We also held two games in the same hour since ice is relatively expensive and the season is so short (45 days of ice) so rather than only 2 of 3 5v5 teams playing, we would always have all four 3v3 teams playing. To the best of my knowledge, there was a league this year that was not organized by the federation. Once again, it was 3v3 on the new 3v3 sized ice rink. None of the players on the national team participated.

    There was a major riff last year just before World Championships between the players + coaching staff, and the president of the federation. Ultimately the players asked for certain changes, which the president did not agree to, so the players and staff did not go. This year, you will see the roster is very different from previous tournaments. Many players have been called out of retirement, some have been asked to play even though they really cannot skate, some were promised things and then were cut a day before the tournament, some were flown in from abroad where they are currently working and then sent back because their flight was delayed. There are also three new players who are illegal, however apparently the IIHF has signed off on them, despite them not fulfilling the two year rule, two of them having never stepped foot in the country for domestic championships and never having put their transfer cards in before this season. Things in BiH are a mess...

    Based on my experience there, UAE should win the division. When we played in 2015, the game was close between us. They were missing a few players due to illness, injury and work commitments as they had just played in CCoA, on the flip side, we didn't have any of the "Ilidza" players. Anything is possible with these three new players coming for Bosnia, they should compensate a bit for the lack of 12 core NT players choosing not to represent their country. That should be the gold medal game. Turkmenistan and Kuwait, not sure about.

    If anyone has any questions or wants me to elaborate further, feel free to let me know.

    Kevin
    So basically, the IIHF once again decided to selectively apply the rules. Bosnia, based on the above, should not be playing in the tournament.

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    Turkmenistan should get through this. I personally want to see them win just for the novelty of a country that's 90% desert competing in the Worlds!

    One question - there was talk for several years about Presidents Niyazov and/or Berdymukhamedov pumping money into a national stadium for hockey. Has this actually happened or are these Turkmen players picked either from abroad or some sort of short-season domestic league in Turkmenistan?

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    Turkmenistan will win I think, they look much better than Bosnia. Also BiH has lot of penalties what is I think a signal of few training and lack of skills (reckless checking - because you don't know that's not allowed; team penalties for too many men on ice, what shows the lack of in-game lineup-change in the rest of the year). Turkmenistan on the other hand shows that they actually have ice-time, training and more proper championship in their legs than BiH. The only what is for BiH is that home ice - crowd support and will to win sometimes can do miracles.

    Quote Originally Posted by BhamJohn View Post
    One question - there was talk for several years about Presidents Niyazov and/or Berdymukhamedov pumping money into a national stadium for hockey. Has this actually happened or are these Turkmen players picked either from abroad or some sort of short-season domestic league in Turkmenistan?
    There is a "Winter Sport Palace" in Ashgabat and another indoor rink in a smaller town, both with international size ice. The one in Ashgabat can house 10 000 spectator. The leagues has 8 teams, and in like old Soviet times, they belong to ministries or state-owned companies. A league is 28 game/team.

    Kevin, I saw that previous championships were played by "Wolves" and "Bears" and "Sharks", now there is Sharks and "Cats" and "Foxes" - are these just mascot changes or totally new teams created by the mentioned reasons? If yes, where is the two "other" team? There was a project as well called "Blue Bulls" - to collect the young (U23 I guess) players and give them chances to play few games abroad to improve. Is it defunct, too? (A pity if yes)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDani View Post
    Also BiH has lot of penalties what is I think a signal of few training and lack of skills (reckless checking - because you don't know that's not allowed; team penalties for too many men on ice, what shows the lack of in-game lineup-change in the rest of the year).
    The hockey IQ is very low. A lot of these players grew up watching Don Cherry Rock'Em Sock'Em, so much of their knowledge about hockey as kids came from these 'highlights'. The other challenge is traditionally the better athletes play soccer, basketball, handball, tennis, etc... where 1) the sports are much cheaper, 2) they have a much deeper history of, 3) the parents see this as a way out for their kids so they push them into these sports so they can go abroad.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDani View Post
    Kevin, I saw that previous championships were played by "Wolves" and "Bears" and "Sharks", now there is Sharks and "Cats" and "Foxes" - are these just mascot changes or totally new teams created by the mentioned reasons? If yes, where is the two "other" team? There was a project as well called "Blue Bulls" - to collect the young (U23 I guess) players and give them chances to play few games abroad to improve. Is it defunct, too? (A pity if yes)
    Long story short is: Sharks = Ilidza, Bosna/Foxes/Wild Cats = old federation, Wolves = HK Vukovi Stari Grad & Bears = HK Medvjedi Sarajevo. Ilidza has always been on their own, Bosna/Foxes/Wild Cats were/are run by the old federation, and Wolves/Bears were started about 8 years ago after a few of the players saw how much corruption there was in the old federation. Wolves and Bears are on good terms and work together, they are the only two clubs who are active and who have practices for kids learning to skate through U15. In previous years, the senior players played abroad as HK Vukovi as the name has recognition in the region, now they play as HK Medvjedi in certain tournaments as well. Same roster, more or less, but they change the logo on the jersey based on which club gets invited to play.

    To get back to your question, the BHL league was run by the old federation, which is where the Bosna, Foxes, Wild Cats comes in. Then Bosna tried to play in some Balkan league and the players who left for Vukovi/Medvjedi made the BHHL which is where Sharks, Wolves and Bears come in. Once the new federation came into power, a former Vukovi board member, the federation took over running the league once again since it had been doing it for the previous few years, so the league then became BHL again. Now there is no official league (I believe) due to the stresses put on by the current federation. So once again the Wolves/Bears guys made their own beer league so that they could continue to play.

    Blue Bulls was a pilot project to keep the U20 players together with the hopes of having them play in WC U20. The problem was, after year 1/2, there were not as many 15/16 year olds coming into the program because the old federation had a big gap in recruitment. Effectively, the group of Mrkva, Catovic, Korjenic, etc... had about 15 within three years of each other, now they are 21-23. The next group behind them are currently 18/19 but there are only about 5 of them. The next closest group is U15 with about 20 who started playing with the BHL Kids project started by HK Vukovi and HK Medvjedi years ago. So keeping the Blue Bulls together wasn't really possible because the numbers we're big enough to do so.

    Right now the Wolves have kids who play in a U15 and U12 "Yugo" league: Subotica, Novi Sad, Sisak & Sarajevo (I believe), plus the regular weekly house league games they organize with the U8 and U10 kids. The Bears have recently rebooted their programming and have kids in the U8 and U10 league, plus their learn to skate programme. There is also the girls team, Lionesses (Lavice), who were started by the Wolves and who train with the U8/U10 Wolves kids.

    It's all a little confusing and very much incestuous, for lack of a better term.

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    TKM 13 BIH 3
    UAE 4 KUW 2

    Results but not scores as expected. Good to see that the event took place, with all four teams. Hope they all feel it was worthwhile.

    I’ll be interested to see what format is used by the IIHF next year. If there are fewer teams then a larger DIVIII may be used like last year.

    Geoff

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    BIH had a 3-1 lead after 30 minutes but just couldn't manage to hold on it because Turkemnistan was clearly better team on the ice. They skated better and were far more disciplined, its incredible how many unnecessary penalties Bosnians took and that's why the team collapsed in last period. It's a pity because they fought and played the best hockey they could.

    More than 1000 people in the stands, it shows how hight the interest in hockey exists in Sarajevo. If only they could have ice in Zetra for more than 2 months, this smaller ice rink is a great thing but can never prepare players for playing on regular sized ice rink.

    @auerbachk,

    thanks for clarifying these things, the lack of info on BH hockey in last years was incredible when comparing with previous seasons and it made it impossible to follow what's happening without being directly involved in the matter. You lived in BH and you could see on your own eyes how te things are doing in that country. Unfortunately, nothing can go easily and without problems, even the small hockey community managed to get divided and for what reasons - they are amateurs and love the game and that's why NEED TO cooperate. I'm sure that their infrastructure would be much better if they were cooperating from the beginning. In a city that big and with interest in hockey so high, one permanent indoor ice rink would do miracles there, I'm 100% sure. Let's hope that the organization of EYOF next year will bring everyone involved together and that it will result in finally having that ice hall.

    You are saying that the kids prefer other sports and that's true. Truth is that they really do, but city of Sarajevo just can't offer them anything on that matter because all sport are on incredibly low level. Before the war, everything was different. Somme great footballers were trained there and Željezničar and Sarajevo were miles ahead of the current situtation and they could compete with the clubs from all over Europe. Basketball club Bosna was once European champion and some of the best player of that time were raised in Sarajevo.

    Now if any kid want to be good in these sport, it needs to go abroad to succeed. The best sportsmen of the country, footballers Edin Džeko and Vedad Ibišević built their careers abroad although they were born in BIH. Same goes for the best basketball players Nurkić, Teletović and young Musa. My point is that hockey can be popular but it can hardly ever be a first choice for the local kids. The critical years are juniors because that's when they need to decide, will they pursue training hockey and play few games in domestic league (non existing at the moment) or they will go to work, go to study or work abroad and etc. It would be a disaster for BH hockey if they would give up hockey after years of involvement and "investment" in them. That's not in anyone's interest and that's what will happen without proper senior league. Do you know why the guys like Korjenić, Mrkva and Ćatović aren't on the team, as far as I know. they were one of the best from that junior generation, did they give up hockey because of dispute?
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    I heard that Kuwait and UAE are having similar issues with their players/federation as well and most of their stronger players did not play in D3Q.

    I haven't heard anything about EYOF since I left last year so I can't really update you guys on that. The last I heard was that BiH would not have a team playing. The ages of the players in BiH don't really fit for EYOF plus the calibre is on a different level. If Russia v Turkey was bad last year...

    Pršljen, I think your "tag" at the bottom sums up the situation in Bosnia pretty well. The future of Bosnian hockey could be very bright, but there are too many people with 0 hockey experience or knowledge who are involved. As a result, the people who do or who come from abroad to help are not fully able to do their jobs. Another issue is they want immediate results and are not willing to invest long term (ie. development). Most people in hockey are not in hockey for the right reasons. Everything needs to be restructured but they don't want to accept change. Zeljo - Sarajevo & Partizan - Zvezna is the model that the federation looks at. You can see how well that is working in Serbia. The mindset is, "how can we sell hockey if we don't have rivals" versus, "how can we pool our resources to grow hockey". There is nothing to sell, the level is far too low and there aren'Wolves, Bears and Lionesses get it, the other clubs don't.

    The organization who runs Zetra prefers having concerts and indoor tennis/basketball because it is far less work for them than running the ice rink. The municipality donates money every year to keep the ice in but Zetra chooses to run the ice for 45 days. It's tough to ask kids and parents to commit themselves to hockey when it is a 45 day a year sport and all the others are 8-10. The Wolves group is looking into expanding their 3v3 ice to 5v5 in the future but land is the biggest issue, along with the finances.

    Those guys, including some of the older players (born 85-89), are choosing not to play for the NT due to circumstances surrounding the federation, however they are still playing locally and in tournaments in the region. If you look at the entry list from 2015, 2016 and 2017, compared to this past D3Q, you'll notice there are no longer any players from Wolves and Bears. With me being the lone exception, all the coaches were players on the NT who give back to their clubs to keep them going and to make things better for the next generation. All the players who chose not to play this past WC started to see what goes on behind the scenes at the federation level. You can piece together which players and clubs are fighting for growth of the sport.

  31. #31
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    The last line of the third paragraph should read:

    There is nothing to sell, the level is far too low and there aren't enough players. Wolves, Bears and Lionesses get it, the other clubs don't.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowan View Post
    There are rumours that Georgian are not taking part this year at the IIHF Tournament!!!

    Greetings,
    Rowan
    Have you heard any more of this rumour ? IIHF are still showing Georgia competing.

    Geoff

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    Yes they come to the World championships

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffH View Post
    Have you heard any more of this rumour ? IIHF are still showing Georgia competing.

    Geoff
    Yes they come to the IIHF World championship!


    Greetings,
    Rowan

  34. #34
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    Good, glad they can play after all.

    Geoff

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffH View Post
    Good, glad they can play after all.

    Geoff
    They have their preliminary roster up now, and it seemingly has even more ethnic Russian players than ever. While that doesn't necessarily mean anything, I really hope those guys are locals and not imports bending the rules; would be a shame for the Georgian team to be the second Caucasian nation to be banned for something like that.

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