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Thread: Austria - Nationalliga and other leagues

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    So basically the leagues are the clubs they decide what's going on and in general this is ok, because it's the clubs that have to pay things.The federation can of course act as a coordinating instution and mediator but apart from that it has little power. If the clubs don't want Zell (whether for good reasons or not) the federation basically can't do a thing because it doesn't pay players, organise games, train players etc...
    Such an argument is an argument for a Wild West type of society where there is no rule of laws but the might makes right. There are reasons why people invented governments, courts and laws instead of leaving everything to what the mightiest agree among themselves.

    The same goes for sports as well. Competitions left to their own devices eventually turn themselves into chaos where noone knows where and against whom one is going to play the very next season.

    Austria is certainly not the only culprit and if anything, situation gets worse as one looks to the southeast, but it's about time for national federations, as well as IIHF to get their acts together and take the reins back.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    Such an argument is an argument for a Wild West type of society where there is no rule of laws but the might makes right. There are reasons why people invented governments, courts and laws instead of leaving everything to what the mightiest agree among themselves.

    The same goes for sports as well. Competitions left to their own devices eventually turn themselves into chaos where noone knows where and against whom one is going to play the very next season.

    Austria is certainly not the only culprit and if anything, situation gets worse as one looks to the southeast, but it's about time for national federations, as well as IIHF to get their acts together and take the reins back.
    Just the fact that the productive entities that carry the burden (the clubs) sort things out among themselves doesn't imply lawlessness at all. Basically the clubs had agreed on rules and proceedings things just got derailed due to extreme events (which were admittedly not unforseeable).

    Governments resp. central institutions which are ceded the power to enforce actions (subject to democratic legitimation) are often a good thing but subsidiarity (decisions taken by those who are affected) and autonomy is by no means inferior in general. Quite on the contrary, how often do we have central governing bodies that are corrupted, incompetent and whose decisions are NOT to the benefit of the agents affected? Very often, especially when it comes up to OEHV.
    Right now the situation is pretty fucked up and one can argue that the federation and its attempt to enforce Zell's participation was a major cause for the unfortunate turn of events.
    Central governing bodies as benevolent dictators that implement socially optimal solutions at a minimal cost are a utopia (although one might argue about that as well) and in reality these institutions are often prone to put a burden on the people instead of helping...

    The federation should provide a framework of reasonable rules and an institution to enforce them. The rest should be sorted out by the people who pay the bills. If I was a club president who is personally liable for the club's economic activities I would not want unanimoulsy taken decisions by the total set of teams to be overthrown.

  3. #53
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    Nationalliga 2009/10 has been finally brought on the way in a meeting of the participating clubs that took place without a representative of the federation.
    As expected the league will have 7 teams: VEU Feldkirch, EHC Lustenau, EC Dornbirn and EHC Bregenzerwald from Vorarlberg, HC Innsbruck (Tyrol), Red Bulls Salzburg Farmteam (Salzburg) and the newly founded club Zeller Eisbären (Salzburg). After their announced retreat from the league ATSE Graz despite the ambitious roster already signed and EV Zeltweg (both from Styria) were not invited to the meeting and will definitely not compete in the upcoming Nationalliga season.
    The league's format will be a regular season of three round robins (36 games per team) after which the last placed team is eliminated. The top two teams are automatically qualified for the play-off semi final while the other four will compete for the two remaining spots in a first play-off round.
    The current situation with two teams having withdrawn their participation was sparked by the federation's attempts to force Zell am See participation despite a negative decision of the other clubs. Now Zell is included and the 6 other teams stressed that they have no objection against Zell in general but against the federation overruling unanimous decision. For the future the teams emphsized that the league needs to get greater autonomy from OEHV in order to avoid problems like this.

    At least the league is saved but I think the events will have a longer lasting negative effect on the league system. It became apparent that the relations of the clubs and the federation are strained and marked by insufficient rules and procedures. With Zeltweg and ATSE joining (or trying to join) Oberliga the federation now has two leagues under its umbrella that apparently compete with rather than to complement each other a situation every monopolist would like to avoid (and in that case this would also be to a greater benefit). Furthermore, the retreat of the two Styrian sides leaves the impression that their disappointment with the federation's role is more a scapegoat than the true reason of canceling their participation. I guess the west emphasized league without third team from their region (Kapfenberg, which had folded before) was putting them into a economically problematic situation which they just chose to avoid.

    The biggest loser in teh whole game is however the federation itself. Although I admit that trying to get Zell into the league is warranted as Zell is a traditional hockey town with a decent talent output the way they proceeded was apparently inadequate as the reaction of the teams shows. I could easily imagine that this affaire will have consequences for federation president Kalt who is seeking reelection next year.

  4. #54
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    The teams of the third level Oberliga have cleared the way for the upcoming season in a meeting today. Participating clubs are:

    * ATSE Graz
    * EV Zeltweg
    * KSV
    * EC Bulls Weiz (all Styria)
    * HC die 48er Wien
    * Salzburg Oilers
    * EC Wels (Upper Austria)
    * Black Wings Linz 2 (Upper Austria)
    * Tarco Wölfe Klagenfurt (Carinthia)

    First a double home&road round robin will be played (20 games per team), afterwards the squads ranked 1.-3., 4.-6., and 7.-9. will play another home&road round robin giving each team 4 more games. From these four games a new ranking will be created, the last placed is eliminated and the other eight go into the quaterfinals (cross wise seeded, bo3). Semi-finals and finals bo5. The league will start on September 19th and the regular season will only be played on Saturdays. One import player is allowed per team.

    Just as the Austrian part of EBEL is an eastern Austrian affair so is Oberliga. In both, EBEL and Oberliga Salzburg is the westernmost team location while in Nationalliga it is the easternmost. Salzburg is now the only city and also the only province to have a team in all three leagues administered by the national federation.

    For EC Wels (Wels is an 60k inhabitant industrial city some 25 km south west of Linz) the prospect of having a senior team in a decent (well almost ;-) league is a great opportunity to get hockey going in Upper Austria where the sport is still almost going nowhere with the exception of (Black Wings) Linz. Wels has a club since quite some time but was as also the other Upper Austrian clubs outside the capital city Linz (Steyr and Gmunden, not too many of them...) confined to a very low profile. Hope they break the barrier and establish themselve and their youth program on a higher level. Shouldn't be too hard in a city where team sports wise women's basketball is the clear #1...
    Last edited by RexKramer; 09-08-2009 at 10:09.

  5. #55
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    EHC LUSTENAU won the Nazionalliga in 2009
    Hier Regiert der EHC!!!!!

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    Hi, I am new in this forum, however, I am quite surprised how well informed a guy like "Rex Kramer" is, even his English is decent.
    Concerning the situation in the Nationalliga I would like to point out that just a year ago the Austrian federation had ruled out Team Vienna taking part in the Nationalliga BECAUSE of the other clubs' decission not to let them - It is a very long way for the clubs from Vorarlberg to Vienna - Dr. Kalt the Austrian President of the association said, "I cannot overrule the other clubs because I might need them if the Bundesliga folds again!"

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikita View Post
    Hi, I am new in this forum, however, I am quite surprised how well informed a guy like "Rex Kramer" is, even his English is decent.
    Concerning the situation in the Nationalliga I would like to point out that just a year ago the Austrian federation had ruled out Team Vienna taking part in the Nationalliga BECAUSE of the other clubs' decission not to let them - It is a very long way for the clubs from Vorarlberg to Vienna - Dr. Kalt the Austrian President of the association said, "I cannot overrule the other clubs because I might need them if the Bundesliga folds again!"

    First of all welcome, you made the best possible debut throwing around good grades for being informed and using decent English...hope you didn't expect dumbasses with poor language skills

    Well, there's a little bit more to the Team Wien story a far as I heard it. Team Wien and Salzburg protested against the new rules concerning player movements between the farm team and the EBEL team which were set in favor of the traditional non EBEL affilitated Nationalliga teams resticting movement of players between farm and EBEL team. In order to pressure the league they ignored the entry deadline but Salzburg withdrew surprisingly and got in line with the new rules while TW didn't...
    And as the NL west teams were everything else than unhappy to get rid of TW (long travel, unattractive opponent) they used the opportunity.
    Kalt had no leverage I guess in this case. He had a hard time getting Zell back into the league which is economically a vital part of the league (in contrast to TW).

  8. #58
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    I played for EHC Lustenau long time ago.This was a special year.
    They were in Bundesliga then.I am happy they won this year

  9. #59
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    Kapfenberg hockey restructuring

    After the long demise of hockey in Kapfenberg, the club is not icing a senior team in either the first or second league for the first time in ages there's (once again) a plan of restructuring: This time it is not by founding a new club which has happend a couple of times after the respective predecessor folded or by trying to reform the existing one but instead by integrating hockey under the umbrella of another organization. The organisation to include hockey shall be Kapfenberg Bulls, an established an well working team in the Austrian Basketball Bundesliga.
    The city in Upper Styria is among the places in Austria with a long and strong tradition in hockey (Kapfenberg for instance developped Austria's first ever NHL skater Christoph Brandner) and getting the sport back on track there would be an important step to stabilizing Eastern Austrian Nationalliga hockey.

  10. #60
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    Dornbirn signed Russian center Dmitri Nabokov
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  11. #61
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    A centerman who put up 32 points in 58 games in the SM-Liiga is an amazing pickup for a Nationalliga club.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    A centerman who put up 32 points in 58 games in the SM-Liiga is an amazing pickup for a Nationalliga club.
    Looking at his stats I'd say that he would be a very good signing for most of the EBEL teams too.

    Their second recent signing Jussi Tarvainnen looks decent too.

  13. #63
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    Austrian 2nd and 3rd tier 2010/11

    Just a quick overview about the Austrian league landscape below EBEL for the upcoming season:

    The second tier Nationalliga 2009/10 was won by EC Dornbirn who defeated former EBEL side HC Innsbruck in the finals of the 7 team league. One level further down ATSE Graz as expected won the championship in the third tier Oberliga and will promote to Nationalliga for the upcoming season (if they don't pull out again as they did last year when they were set to play in Nationalliga as well). Thus, Nationalliga will feature the following 8 teams (province in brackets):

    EC Dornbirn (Vorarlberg)
    HC Innsbruck (Tyrol)
    EHC Lustenau (Vorarlberg)
    VEU Feldkirch (Vorarlberg)
    Red Bulls Salzburg II (Salzburg)
    EK Zell am See (Salzburg)
    EHC Bregenzerwald (Vorarlberg)
    ATSE Graz (Styria)

    From Oberliag one team will disappear entirely from the (senior) hockey map. EV Zeltweg (Styria) a fairly heralded Nationalliga team with some past appearances also in the top league folded a few days ago. The club's chairman who was also the senior official of the city's department of finances had over years channeled money from the city to the club to cover the club's expenses. As this fraud was revealed the club was sent into bankruptcy with a debt of apparently more than a million Euro. It is hoped that the youth hockey activities in Zeltweg can be kept alive but there won't be a senior team playing on a higher level for probably a long time to come. Apart from this sad news the set of teams competeing in Oberliga next season is not yet determined. Good news from Vienna are that the Capitals will participate with a farm team (U20 with reinforced with some older players). Thus, Oberliga should have the following teams for sure:

    Kapfenberg Bulls (Styria)
    Black Wings Linz II (Upper Austria)
    Vienna Capitals II (Vienna)
    ATUS Weiz (Styria)
    EC Salzburg Oilers (Salzburg)

    Whether EC Wels (Upper Austria) will be in the mix also this season I don't know. The club had financial problems last season but as far as I remember it was stated that they had solved these and will continue to ice an Oberliga team. The status of Vienna's EC die 48er is also unclear but the farm team of the Capitals might in fact be some kind of cooperation with the 48ers and I'd be very surprised to see them in the league with a team of their own.

  14. #64
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    Why doesn't Austrian Federation merge Nationalliga and Oberliga into second tier league with two geographically separated divisions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    Why doesn't Austrian Federation merge Nationalliga and Oberliga into second tier league with two geographically separated divisions?
    Well, as usual in Austria it's more the clubs themselves that have their say how the league they play in has to look like than it is the federation forcing a league structure on the teams.
    Nationalliga and Oberliga wouldn't go together on one hierarchy level because the Nationalliga teams are considerably stronger than the Oberliga squads (not only due to Nationalliga allowing 3 imports while Oberliga allowed only 1). Therefore, merging the two leagues into one with two seperate divisions doesn't make much sense.

    If it comes to merging leagues Oberliga and "Tyrolean Elite League" resp. the "Carinthian Hockey League" (or parts of it) would be candidates. TEL resp CHL are run by the provincial hockey federations of Tyrol and Carinthia and have shyed away from getting into the nationally run Oberliga as the clubs feared a format with too long road trips through Austria rather than when playing against their local and closer by opponents only. In terms of strength especially TEL is I guess reasonable close to Oberliga but the top Carinthian teams would also be competitive I think. But the situation as it is with the OEHV run Oberliga as third tier in the east and TEL resp. CHL as regional quasi third tier leagues in the west and south seems pretty stable. Don't expect a unified system on this level to arise anytime soon and basically there's imho also no real beenfit of such a merger.

  16. #66
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    Oberliga 2010/11

    This week after a meeting the bulk of teams for the next Oberliga season have been connfirmed. Participants are going to be:

    Kapfenberg (Styria)
    Salzburg Oilers
    Black Wings Linz II (Upper Austria)
    Vienna Capitals farm team
    Graz 99ers U20 (Styria)
    KAC U20 (Carinthia)
    VSV (U20)

    Weiz (retreat due to lack of money) is out, Zeltweg (club folded) and Wels were given a postponed deadline until end of June to join in.

    EBEL sides 99ers, KAC and VSV playing Oberliga sounds as the Super Junior League is dead, in case of Graz I think it also means that they are out of Slohokej. Interesting development, Oberliga seems to become a development league for EBEL clubs to give their juniors another and probably better competition than the U20 championship exposing them to some amateur club's senior squads.

  17. #67
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    So, Oilers has nothing in common with RedBulls ?

    And what about Wien? Does exist some other club there or just Capitals?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coss View Post
    So, Oilers has nothing in common with RedBulls ?

    And what about Wien? Does exist some other club there or just Capitals?
    Salzburg Oilers are completely independent. It's a small club that grew out of rec hockey and they don't have youth hockey activities. Their aim is to have senior hockey played by local guys. For what I have read they have pretty hard time to exist beside the Red Bulls who don't leave a lot of ice time in Salzburg for anyone else (Salzburg has just the Volksgarten arena and a second open but covered ice pad...

    In Vienna there are more than 30 clubs organized in the city's hockey federation. The bulk of the teams are of course beer league clubs but apart from the Capitals there are 3 youth hockey clubs with teams in all categories (Junior Capitals which are an organisation of their own, W-EV, 48er Icetigers). On senior level there's also die48er who hover around the Oberliga and next lower level, then there's 2 women's teams (Sabres Vienna who play in the EWHL, Vienna Flyers) and more than 25 senior men's teams in 3 leagues from good amateur down to pretty much the just for fun level...
    W-EV (the club of origin of NHLer Andreas Nödl and Rafael Rotter) used to have a senior team in Nationalliga up until some years ago but they stopped their senior activities due to financial problems and now focus only on youth hockey.

  19. #69
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    Update on Oberliga

    As it seems by now the Austrian Oberliga (tier III) will feature the following teams this season:

    Kapfenberg Bulls (Styria)
    Salzburg Oilers
    ATUS Weiz (Styria)
    Black Wings Linz farm team (Upper Austria)
    Vienna Capitals farm team
    Graz 99ers U20 (Styria)
    KAC U20 (Carinthia)
    VSV U20 (Carinthia)

    3 independent senior teams and 5 farm teams of EBEL squads. Farm teams typically don't draw well so I think it's going to be a season without too much of revenues from ticket sales for the teams. The farm teams of course don't depend on thembut for the others it might be a problem.

  20. #70
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    As a sidenote, ATSE Graz of the second tier Nationalliga has hired Todd Elik some weeks ago now the Styrians have added another high profile by signing Pierre Dagenais.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by felix kozak View Post
    I played for EHC Lustenau long time ago.This was a special year.
    They were in Bundesliga then.I am happy they won this year
    Just to give you some update as we've talked yesterday. Unfortunately EHC is in financial distress after the not so successful season, they have amassed a deficit of 70k Euro. As Lustenau is a vital part of the league neighbouring rivals EC Dornbirn (the uprising club got pretty big in the last years and currently more than rivals VEU for the #1 in Vorarlberg) filled a break in the schedule waiting for the semifinals to begin with an exhibition game against Lustenau who were already eliminated from the play-offs with all revenue going to EHC.
    Organisatorically EHC will also have to find a new set up as long time club president and former Nationalliga chairman Werner Alfare has announced to retire from his position.

  22. #72
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    Final of Nationalliga 2010/11 is going to be an all Vorarlberg affair as Dornbirn has downed ATSE Graz and Feldkirch kicked out regular season dominators Innsbruck. With Lustenau the traditional archrival of the all time best team from Vorarlberg (VEU Feldkirch) struggling VEU versus upcoming EC Dornbirn is THE game in the westernmost part of Austria. Expect capacity crowds (and beyond) for all games of the final series.

  23. #73
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    RexKramer: How does Tier 4 and Tier 5 work in Austria?
    What leagues are Tier 4 and which are Tier 5?

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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aren View Post
    RexKramer: How does Tier 4 and Tier 5 work in Austria?
    What leagues are Tier 4 and which are Tier 5?
    Hmmm, we have:

    Tier 1: EBEL
    Tier 2: Nationalliga
    Tier 3: Oberlige (East, South);

    These are the OEHV run senior leagues. All other leagues below are run by the provincial federations (though not necessarily involvong only teams from one province). The number of league tiers is different across provinces as is the level of the teams. Typically the top league in a province is called "Landesliga", the better of these are sometimes called "Eliteliga". You can consider these leagues as tier 4 in general but the best of those (Tiroler Eliteliga, Carinthian hockey league) are probably not far below or on par with Oberliga and were technically tier 3 when Oberliga was not in place. At this level and below tier 4 it gets more and more beer resp. recreational league like but still there's quite some differences in strength depending on how popular hockey is in the region. Here's a list of tier 4 leagues (very roughly in order of playing strength according to my guess).

    Tier 4: Tiroler Eliteliga (Tirol, Vorarlberg) , Carinthian Hockey League (Carinthia, Eastern Tyrol), Wiener Liga (Vienna, Lower Austria), Eliteliga Steiermark (Styria, Lower Austria, Burgenland), Landesliga Vorarlberg, Landesliga Öberösterreich (Upper Austria, Lower Austria), Landesliga Salzburg (Salzburg);

    Tier 5 and lower: various leagues in a different number of hierarchy levels in different provinces (number of tiers below tier 4 ranges from 2 to 4 roughly). These lower provincial tiers are typically split geographically given there are enough teams around to do so. In the alpine parts of the country many teams on tier 4 and below play on natural ice rinks (thx Haxo ;-) and have pretty short seasons (typically December to February)

    Vienna: Wiener Unterliga (that's where my team plays ;-), Wiener Unterliga B;
    Upper Austria: Landesliga division 2 and 3;
    Lower Austria: Landesliga
    Vorarlberg: Landesklasse A & B
    Carinthia: 1. Klasse Ost & West, 2. Klasse A and B
    etc....

  26. #76
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    LMAO at the picture response from Haxo in post #74.......classic!

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    LMAO at the picture response from Haxo in post #74.......classic!
    Nothing better than some good old pond hockey! The way it´s meant to be played, don´t need no steroids.

    @Slohockey: thats one considerable point for sure, idk how lucrative this would be for the SLO-teams anyway, since the would face quite high travel expenses. Maybe two divisions would solve this problem partly, but i agree that this would be pretty much a blow to the Slovenian league.

  28. #78
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    Guys,

    postings focusing strongly on Team Zagreb resp. Croatian clubs issues have been moved to the Croatia forum and can continued to be discussed there. Keep this thread on topic and your way of arguing in line with the board rules. Thanks.

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    IHWC Landesliga/Tier 4

    Does the Austrian Federation or Provincial Federation(s) that run these leagues (Landesliga/Tier 4) allow import players to compete?

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak19 View Post
    Does the Austrian Federation or Provincial Federation(s) that run these leagues (Landesliga/Tier 4) allow import players to compete?
    Some of the tier 4 leagues do allow a small number of imports (1 or 2) others don't. Tyrolean elite league for instance allowed imports, as well as the Carinthian hockey league if I'm not mistaken whereas the Vienna city league doesn't...
    The OEHV run Oberliga (tier 3) did allow 1 import per team (although I think few teams made use of it).

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    Thank you very much for the information Rex!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Some of the tier 4 leagues do allow a small number of imports (1 or 2) others don't. Tyrolean elite league for instance allowed imports, as well as the Carinthian hockey league if I'm not mistaken whereas the Vienna city league doesn't...
    The OEHV run Oberliga (tier 3) did allow 1 import per team (although I think few teams made use of it).
    and how many import players are allowed to play in the NL? many thanks for your response...

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklos View Post
    and how many import players are allowed to play in the NL? many thanks for your response...
    Up to now it was three. No idea how this is going to be handled with the reform of the league that is planned.

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    thx

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    The reformed Nationalliga started today. The league features 12 teams in a west and an east division. The teams play the opponents in their own divsion four times those from the other divsion twice, the standings will however not be split but all teams will be ranked in one table (if you think that is odd, it certainly is as the west division is much stronger than the east).

    West division:
    Dornbirn
    Lustenau
    Feldkirch
    Bregenzerwald
    Innsbruck
    Zell am See

    East division:
    Black Wings Linz II
    KAC II
    Vienna Silver Capitals
    Kapfenberg (cooperation with Graz99ers)
    Dab.Docler (HUN)
    ATSE Graz

    The EBEL clubs' farmteams may use all U24 and 3 overage players from the EBEL team plus a maximum of 5 imports the Nationalliga only teams are allowed 3 imports. It is however pretty obvious that the farm teams will not be very competitive against especially the better Nationalliga only teams which makes the east significantly weaker than the west. The Hungarian representative DAB Docler also competes in MOL league and has a roster of more than 30 players all of which may compete in both leagues (in the case of a conflicting schedule I think Nationalliga will be given priority and the stronger players be used there afaIk - maybe our Hungarian members can clearify this).
    Due to the divisional split the strong teams from the east (Dab.Docler and ATSE I'd say) have an advantage over the west teams in the standings, expect them to take ranks much on top after the 32 games.
    Last edited by RexKramer; 18-09-2011 at 02:03.

  36. #86
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    The issue is that there are still a lot of crossover games between the two divisions, so if the west is that much stronger, then those teams will still end up at the top of the standings because they`ll fare that much better against the other division.

    There was a similar format in the CJHL a couple years back (the local Junior A league around Ottawa), and the one division had all five teams in the playoffs, compared to only three from the other. The division with only three representing in the playoffs had only one of those three with home-ice advantage.
    In the end, the better teams will end up pretty much exactly where they should, unbalanced schedule and all.

  37. #87
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    The first round clearly backed up what was assumed by Rex before. All cross division games were won by teams from the west. Especially one result displays the trend to come imho: Bregenzerwald clearly beat KAC II with 5:2, with Bregenzerwald generally being one of the weaker teams in Nationalliga. Maybe games will get slightly closer with further course of the season due to the fact that farm team youngsters will maybe better adjust to the physical style of this league plus they might have slight fitness advantage towards the end of the season from constant use of four lines

    EHC Palaoro Lustenau - EHC LIWEST Linz 4:1 (2:1,2:0,0:0)

    HC TWK Innsbruck "Die Haie" - EC hagn_leone Dornbirn 2:3 (1:2,1:0,0:1)

    UPC Vienna Capitals - SPG EKZ 28/EKZ Juniors 09 1:4 (1:2,0:1,0:1)

    Dab. Docler Dunaujvaros - Kapfenberg Bulls 1:0 (0:0,1:0,0:0)

    FBI VEU Feldkirch - ATSE Graz 6:3 (0:0,2:0,4:3)

    EC KAC - EHC Bregenzerwald 2:5 (0:3,1:2,1:0)

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    The Hungarian representative DAB Docler also competes in MOL league and has a roster of more than 30 players all of which may compete in both leagues (in the case of a conflicting schedule I think Nationalliga will be given priority and the stronger players be used there afaIk - maybe our Hungarian members can clearify this).
    No, there is no general rule about which competiton have priority, and I seriously hope that DAB will not automatically send its best players to the NL matches. The rule is that the opponent determines the strength of the roster. Since this was the first match and the opponent was unknown, the club iced a stronger roster for the NL match and a not so strong against Steaua (Steaua is a much better known team for DAB).

    Anyway, I seldom see such one-sided matches like the one yesterday between DAB and Kapfenberg, even if DAB players were simply unable to score (Bauer was really great in the net but the home players did a lot to make him great). I think against the farmteams a DAB light will play in a longer term.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    The issue is that there are still a lot of crossover games between the two divisions, so if the west is that much stronger, then those teams will still end up at the top of the standings because they`ll fare that much better against the other division.

    There was a similar format in the CJHL a couple years back (the local Junior A league around Ottawa), and the one division had all five teams in the playoffs, compared to only three from the other. The division with only three representing in the playoffs had only one of those three with home-ice advantage.
    In the end, the better teams will end up pretty much exactly where they should, unbalanced schedule and all.
    ATSE Graz is a pretty decent squad in the east, probably the caliber of Lustenau in the west. Point is that ATSE will play 4 times against the weak farmteams (Lustenau only 2 times) while with the strong west teams (Dornbinr, Innsbruck, Feldkirch) it is going to be the other way round....I could even imagine that ATSE or Dab.Docler finish on top given they win say their home games against the powerhouses of the west because these are going to take away points from each other in the intra division games while ATSE and DAB will simply collect their points from the farmteams. It's 20 games within and only 12 across the divisions...

  40. #90
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    Rex, in theory you're right and it does give an advantage to the top teams, but like I said in the end it doesn't really seem to matter as much when the games are all played, most teams are usually pretty much where you'd expect them to be even if the schedule was perfectly balanced.

    Regarding DAB, I have to think that in a conflict situation where the MOL match is against a Hungarian team, they'd take that one more seriously. In the same situation but the MOL match is against non-Hungarian club, they might go the NL direction.. I simply have trouble believing that DAB wouldn't consider games that count toward Hungarian national championship as more important.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Regarding DAB, I have to think that in a conflict situation where the MOL match is against a Hungarian team, they'd take that one more seriously. In the same situation but the MOL match is against non-Hungarian club, they might go the NL direction.. I simply have trouble believing that DAB wouldn't consider games that count toward Hungarian national championship as more important.
    Dab wants to Win Mol Liga and the Hungarian Championships.

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    This league will be very interesting. I was watching the third period of DAB-Kapfenberg and it was a good game....

  43. #93
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    I wonder if this has any effect on Nationalliga? I bet it does.

    "Originally Posted by MOL League
    About the cooperation of MOL Liga and Slohokej Liga

    MOL League meeting on Monday decided that - according with the decision of the Slohokej last Thursday - it will make every effort to unite the two series and establish a joint championship with the neighbouring league. With the merger of the two leagues a regional championship will be created with teams from five countries: Croatia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia.

    In the actual season the Hungarian and Slovenian leagues organised two tournaments. Upon the experiences of the Kranj and Zalaegerszeg tournaments, the parties decided to continue the cooperation. This plan is now supported by the teams, so the preparations can begin. The parties emphasized that for the successful collaboration and the
    appropriate background the most important is to find the necessary financial resources.

    Slohokej League is a Slovenian-based international series where next to the six Slovenian teams there is one team from Croatia and one from Serbia. MOL Liga is an international tournament for Hungarian and Romanian teams which runs successfully in the fourth season. Three Romanian and five Hungarian teams are participate in it in this season.

    Matej Sitar
    excecutive director
    Slohokej d.o.o

    Kerey Péter
    president
    MOL Liga"

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    It should not leave Nationalliga unaffected but at the moment it is overall very much unclear how NL is going to look like next season and so speculations abaout the consequences of this cooperation are quite tough to make. The MOL Slohokej cooperation should however be the most relevant for ATSE Graz who have publicly considered to try to join Slohokej in case Nationalliga becomes an entirely western Austrian affair resp. breaks apart. AlthoughI doubt they would be able and willing to travel to Romania on a regular basis.

    Interesting development in any case.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    It should not leave Nationalliga unaffected but at the moment it is overall very much unclear how NL is going to look like next season and so speculations abaout the consequences of this cooperation are quite tough to make. The MOL Slohokej cooperation should however be the most relevant for ATSE Graz who have publicly considered to try to join Slohokej in case Nationalliga becomes an entirely western Austrian affair resp. breaks apart. AlthoughI doubt they would be able and willing to travel to Romania on a regular basis.

    Interesting development in any case.
    Travelling to Romania on a regular basis would not be the case for any of the teams since these matches are played in a batch (with one travel more matches on more consecutive matchdays). - this is how the Hungarian Championships and MOL Liga works since Romanian teams are playing in these series.

  46. #96
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    So you might only have one road trip to MC and Bucharest in the season and play all road games against those teams in one swoop through? Makes sense, especially for a smaller-budget league as this would be (compared to SEL, KHL, etc)

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    So you might only have one road trip to MC and Bucharest in the season and play all road games against those teams in one swoop through? Makes sense, especially for a smaller-budget league as this would be (compared to SEL, KHL, etc)
    Exactly, this is what's happening in MOL Liga even recently, the 8-9 matches in Romania are played during 3 tours.

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    My suspicion is that for an eventual Austrian participant of the MOL-Slohokey league even 2 trips to Romania per season (what about play-offs?) could be prohibitively. Just for the records ;-)

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    My suspicion is that for an eventual Austrian participant of the MOL-Slohokey league even 2 trips to Romania per season (what about play-offs?) could be prohibitively. Just for the records ;-)
    Maybe a "conference" system setup helps it :) And this way only the final is gonna be super "expensive".

    And an Austrian team would have one trip, distance between Bucharest-Brasov-Ciuc is 0-166-263. Can be easily covered over a period of, lets say, 3 games in 6 days, and after that, Hungary is close :)

    It all depends on the money and transporting options can help provide.

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    Rex,

    I think in this Central-European area we have at least 3 countries with "almost good" hockey. I think a strong Central European league is the way to go... Ebel is great, but I think, given the numbers it doesn't help as much to develop Austrian domestic talent as much as it helps Slovenes or Hungarians. Nationalliga is weak in it's own, there are only a few really decent teams. The same applies to MOL liga and Slohokej, and this is what these leagues realized. It seems to me that the world is running away, and the Austrian Federation sits on the ground numb and clueless.

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