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Thread: 2013 IIHF World Championship in Riga?

  1. #1
    IHF Member mysipo's Avatar
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    Mens IHWC 2013 IIHF World Championship in Riga?

    Rene Fasel told, that World championat 2013 will played in Riga. He told, if in Riga will build new ice hall, that will be good. What you think about this?

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    IHF Staff Davide's Avatar
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    A new arena? Last year WC wasn´t played in a brand new arena? Why another one? Should be better to build another arena in Liepaja for ex.?
    Anyway, could you post link with Fasel declarations? Which were another applicants for 2013 WC?

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    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    I think it will be better if it will be played in Minsk :D An the new Minsk Arena wich will be finished in two years :)

    And seriously, I don't believe that Riga will get it after 7 years only...New ambicious countries like Hungary, Belarus (maybe even Denmark) will get preference for IIHF.

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    IHF Member mysipo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Québecois View Post
    A new arena? Last year WC wasn´t played in a brand new arena? Why another one? Should be better to build another arena in Liepaja for ex.?
    Anyway, could you post link with Fasel declarations? Which were another applicants for 2013 WC?
    I can, but only in russian. But build arena in Liepaja isn't smart.

  5. #5
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    I'm quite sure Fasel has been mis-interpretated etc. He's been president of the IIHF for nearly 15 years and is so experienced that he would not make such a mistake.

    The procedure is very clear: in the next 24 months, the member states who wish to host the IHWC will forward their projects and a decision will be taken at the IIHF congress in 2009.

    So why should Fasel suddenly forego this process and announce that the 2013 IHWC will be hosted by a member state than hosted the IHWC as late as last year? It's not even up to him to decide, and it makes no sense at all. It's absolutely BS. Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers or the internet.

    Having said that, I do believe that Latvia has a fair chance of getting the championships again.

    Hungary? Currently ranking 24th, or something, is a long way from hosting the IHWC IMO.

    Belarus? Just imagine hundreds of international journalists travelling to Minsk. Do you think they will write about hockey only? Do you think the authoritarian regime will allow them to walk around freely in Minsk and write about the curtailing of basic human rights and the sorry life of ordinary citizens in the last dictorship in Europe.?
    Such concerns are enough to strike Belarus from the list of potential contenders.

    Denmark? Could easily get it if it had the arena facilities (at least two arenas with a min. capacity of 8,000). Such arenas are not going to be built in the next 20 years (perhaps one, but not two), so you can count out Denmark as well.

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    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Denmark? Could easily get it if it had the arena facilities (at least two arenas with a min. capacity of 8,000). Such arenas are not going to be built in the next 20 years (perhaps one, but not two), so you can count out Denmark as well.
    OT for sure but maybe Denmark could host a joint venture with Malmö, Göteborg or perhaps some Norwegian city. Provided that Denmark will get one arena of 8,000 capacity.

    I wonder what would be IIHF's stance for such a project?
    "Lord Baelish, what you suggest is treason."
    "Only if we lose."

    A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin

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    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Belarus? Just imagine hundreds of international journalists travelling to Minsk. Do you think they will write about hockey only? Do you think the authoritarian regime will allow them to walk around freely in Minsk and write about the curtailing of basic human rights and the sorry life of ordinary citizens in the last dictorship in Europe.?
    Such concerns are enough to strike Belarus from the list of potential contenders.

    It's like the dogma about Russia: big bears and snow in every place. Do you really think that this "authoritarian regime" somehow can be viewed for just a person who arrive to Belarus for visit???

    You can see and can feel nothing there. NOTHING. Ask Irate-pirate, if you don't believe me.

    What is the "curtailing of basic human rights" you talking about? Espessially I like "basic":)

    Of course, there are some problems, like so called "freedom of word" or press, artifical difficulties made to opposition and son on. But forget about basic human rights. When you visit Minks you see very beautifull and developed european city.

    Or do you think the life there is like life in USSR?? You are wrong. There are no analogs to Belarus regime in the whole world. The country developing all the time and Lukashenko is just like a some kind of "car's brake", but not the barrier.

    P.S. I'm sorry about the clear politic contest of this post, but I just couldn't stay silnet cause otherwise it can lead to wrong idea and viewing of Belarus present in the forum users eyes.

    Better we will not develope the discussion about that cause it, firstly, offtop and, secondly, striclty contradics with pur board rule about politic related talks.

    If anybody has any question - send me PM.
    Last edited by Aldair; 20-03-2007 at 21:24.

  8. #8
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Aldair, I do not wish to upset you and as the board rules make clear we should not discuss politics unless it hockey related. It is, however, in this case.

    Since I work with international relations/politics in my professional life, I have fair knowledge about what is going on. I'm not going to write a long essay on this. Sufficient to say that since 2004, U.S. and EU political pressure on the Belarussian political regime has been mounting. In 2004, the basic principles of US's policy toward Belarus was outlined. A key passage in this policy (Belarus Democracy Act of 2004) reads:

    "At a time when freedom is advancing around the world, Aleksandr Lukashenka and his government are turning Belarus into a regime of repression in the heart of Europe, its government isolated from its neighbors and its people isolated from each other. We will work with our allies and partners to assist those seeking to return Belarus to its rightful place among the Euro-Atlantic community of democracies. There is no place in a Europe whole and free for a regime of this kind."

    In 2005, US foreign secretary Condoleezza Rice called Belarus "truly the last remaining true dictatorship in the heart of Europe" (read here). In March 2006, the State Department (i.e. U.S. foreign ministry) issued a report called "The Last Dictatorship in Europe" (Read here).

    You say that I can see and feel nothing there. I believe you. Just as I could see and feel nothing if I went to Nazi-Germany in 1938! This is in fact a distinctive feature of repressive regimes. But don't think that the US and EU authorities are not aware of what is going on beneath the surface.

    Quote from the State Department Report:

    "Mr. Lukashenka has created a repressive dictatorship on the doorstep of the European Union (EU) and NATO...Through his track record of fraudulent elections; state-orchestrated "disappearances" of opponents; imprisonment of peaceful, democratic political figures on spurious charges; and repressive tactics to intimidate civil society, Lukashenka has demonstrated that he is incapable of leading Belarus toward a democratic future. Furthermore, as Belarus’ self-imposed isolation intensifies, Lukashenka is increasingly seeking partners from other states of concern."

    The EU's stance on Belarus is similar to the US. In fact, the EU use the same wording: "the last dictatorship in Europe" ( e.g. report from European Parliament 2006, read here)

    Now, to cut a long story short, the bottom line is this: Politically, Belarus is getting more and more isolated, the US and EU member states are attempting to sanction and isolate the political regime on every account. This includes Belarussian bids for international sports event. If Belarus was to bid for the 2013 IHWC, you can rest assure that it will get no votes from Canada, USA, and all the European members (with the exception of Russia) which de facto make the decisions at the IIHF congresses. And if Belarus with some slight and unimaginable chance were to host the championship, it would risk a boycot from all but one qualified IIHF member.

    So any bid from Belarus would not even be taken seriously. The Belarussian hockey federation would told that if Belarus is to host the IHWC, something needs to give: the resignation of Lukashenko and the implementation of deep democratic reforms of the country.

    Hope I made myself clear now.

  9. #9
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Forgot to add one important thing:

    What is Lukashenko's greatest passion: Hockey!

    "Lukashenko is mad about hockey. When he wants a scratch game it's a three-line whip. Players - some pros, some businessmen, some guards - have been known to get up from sickbeds. The president wears a number "1" shirt. He has his own bench and no-one is allowed to talk to him. His team always wins, its victories uncelebrated in the closed arena." Guardian Review: Accidental tyranny

    So you see: Its impossible to separate IHWC in Belarus from Lukashenko and his regime. It would be Berlin 1936 all over again. No one wants to repeat that mistake.

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    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Yes, I udesrtood your point. And partly agree with you. I have many things to contradict, starting from USA dual standarts politics and sometimes Europe's one. But will not because of forum's matter.

    However, there is one more thing you forget about. I can't believe all these restcrictions will affect belarus people since all european and american leaders make that clear every time they talk about Belarus.

    WC hosting can't be viewed as politic act and it belongs to hosting country people, not to goverment. So if IIHF really think so as you do - all they do it's just a human rights violation. As you can understand, belarus people aren't guilty. And europas-americas know that and don't want ot punish the people, just the govermet.

    That's why all the restrictions that were made are in politics district, not in econimics or something that can harm people.

    Aslo, Fasel told that Belarus will get WC after they will finish the new arena.

  11. #11
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    He has his own bench and no-one is allowed to talk to him. His team always wins, its victories uncelebrated in the closed arena."
    Bullshit. Just bullshit. Like to say: israelis eat small children. Formally. He hasn't his own bench, everebody allowed to talk with him. And his team not always win. The same about celebrating. I saw by MY EYES, and can easily proove everything.

    I think you were this one that told: Don't belive to everything you see on TV or read in newspapers? :)

    I'm even surprised. Never thought that there are SUCH stories about Lukashenko.

    What a stupid world.:(

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    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
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    I don't really see a Berlin '36 happening. The IHWC is important in the hockey countries and not much elsewhere I'd imagine as opposed to the Olympics where the entire world is watching. Lunkashenko's love for hockey may very well be a good reason for Belarus to host. The new arena(s) would almost certainly be built on time and during the event itself they may do various other attractions away from the rinks to help put the show on. I think Belarussian hosted world championship would be a great thing to showcase what could very well be the next country to join the Big 7.

    As for political reasons effecting, though I am fully aware that the IHWC is the showcase event, but consider how many tournaments DPR Korea has hosted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten
    So any bid from Belarus would not even be taken seriously. The Belarussian hockey federation would told that if Belarus is to host the IHWC, something needs to give: the resignation of Lukashenko and the implementation of deep democratic reforms of the country.
    China is hosting three tournaments this year. Last I checked their government was run by a single party.

    I don't think Riga would win honestly but here's an idea. USA Hockey, do something for the sport already and put a bid in.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  13. #13
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Sorry for continuing this, but I have read this article and just must comment. What can I say? It's just called anti-propaganda. That's all. The author takes the most unattractive samples and build on it a whole pictures. When reader see some boy tells:" MOst of my school friends are died because of drugs" - what can he think except that all the people use drugs, they havn't money and bla-bla-bla???

    That's not true. I went threw three schools there - among 90 friennds only one became a narcoman and not dead but still got to prison with time. I think there is nothing special in comparison to other countries.

    Economic level of live in Belarus is even higher that in Russia.If you want to see some facts, look on this report of UNDP (United Nation Development Programm):

    http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/

    You will find there different ranks and tables regarding many different aspects of life. Very interesting and usefulThe numbers will tell you much more then stupid opinion of some obsessive person who actually this reporter is.

    It's became a great offtop, but better to have a big offtop than a big lie. Not me started that.
    Now you see what media can make with people, including yourself. Media didn't lie, but he don't tell all the truth and show facts it the light and perspective it wants. The same was during Israel summer war. All the Europe (exept England) thought (still thinking?) that Israel was a big agressor while Lebabon only suffered cause Europe is getting news mainly from french origin. The didn't lie, but they dind't tell what was happened in Israel. But close to the end of conflict some french minister was in Haifa making a friendly visit. Suddenly rocket attack has started. The guards took him to be coveraged under the nearest building. After that case, somewhy the aspects of french news got changed and revalued.

    That's enough. One pathetic remark. Great russian poet of XIX century, Fedor Tyutchev wrote:

    "Единство,- возвестил оракул наших дней, -
    Быть может спаяно железом лишь и кровью…
    Но мы попробуем спаять его любовью,
    А там увидим, что прочней…"

    He was a big idealist and believed that Love will unite this word and not War. As I see it, this world will die before it became intelligent enough and able to understand and to implie that simple and beautifull principle. Evereone knows to hate, not evereone knows to love.
    Last edited by Aldair; 21-03-2007 at 02:03.

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    IHF Member Irate-Pirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    It would be Berlin 1936 all over again. No one wants to repeat that mistake.
    I don't want to get involved with any politcs, but to compare Lukashenko with Hitler is completely over the top....

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    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldair1808 View Post
    Yes, I udesrtood your point. And partly agree with you. I have many things to contradict, starting from USA dual standarts politics and sometimes Europe's one. But will not because of forum's matter.

    However, there is one more thing you forget about. I can't believe all these restcrictions will affect belarus people since all european and american leaders make that clear every time they talk about Belarus.

    WC hosting can't be viewed as politic act and it belongs to hosting country people, not to goverment. So if IIHF really think so as you do - all they do it's just a human rights violation. As you can understand, belarus people aren't guilty. And europas-americas know that and don't want ot punish the people, just the govermet.

    That's why all the restrictions that were made are in politics district, not in econimics or something that can harm people.

    Aslo, Fasel told that Belarus will get WC after they will finish the new arena.
    Aldair, I won't argue with you about the state of affairs in Belarus. I have never been there and the country doesn't belong to my fields of study.

    I am merely pointing out that there may be serious political obstacles for Belarus to host the championship. Since 2006, Belarus' relationship with USA and EU has deterioriated dramatically. The US and EU authorities are attempting to isolate the regime on every account. For instance, visas are no longer granted to government officials at any level and this also includes family members and even friends. Furthermore, the EU is now boycotting all meetings, conferences, and international events taking place in Belarus. This started in 2006. So you can be quite certain that the EU and its member state will exert serious political pressure on their national hockey federations as well as the IIHF if they decide to grant the hosting of the IHWC to Belarus.

    Of course the Belarus people aren't guilty, but the problem is that Lukashenko is deeply involved with Belarus' hockey federation. At times it looks like that he is running this federation as well. Example: it was Lukashenko, not the Belarus hockey federation, who invited Canada to Minsk. evidence. I am not at all certain how well aware the US and EU governments are about Lukashenko's close ties with hockey, but once they find out - and they will find out - you can rest assure that they will do their outmost to twarth Lukashenko's bid for the IHWC. That's all I'm saying.

    And, to your last remark: It's still wrong. Fasel does not decide, and there is still no hard evidence that he made those remarks. Back in 2005, Belarus was outvoted 89-18 by Germany when the IIHF congress decided who should host the 2010 IHWC. This despite the fact that Germany had just been relegated three days earlier. Given the political developments mentioned above, I'd say that Belarus would get even fewer votes next time. But the point is this: Fasel does not decide, the IHWC congress does.


    Quote Originally Posted by KazakhEagles View Post
    As for political reasons effecting, though I am fully aware that the IHWC is the showcase event, but consider how many tournaments DPR Korea has hosted.
    You can't compare the IHWC with the lower divisions, junior hockey or womens hockey. The IHWC is one of the biggest winter sports event in the world. No one outside the hockey world cares about the other IIHF events.


    Quote Originally Posted by Irate-Pirate View Post
    I don't want to get involved with any politcs, but to compare Lukashenko with Hitler is completely over the top....
    Many officials in the EU and the US do compare Lukashenko with Hitler.

    And you know why? Lukashenko has in fact only himself to blame for this. But I don't think he blames himself. Allegedly, for Lukashenko, Hitler is a great source of inspiration!

    here is one of his less memorable quotes:

    "Not everything connected to a certain Adolf Hitler in Germany was bad. Remember his rule in Germany. The German order had grown over centuries. Under Hitler, this process reached its culmination. This is perfectly in line with our understanding of a presidential republic and the role of its president."

    The quote is from an interview with the German newspaper, Handelsblatt. Handelsblatt found the interview so distasteful that it decided not to publish it. But the interview was taped, and you can find bits and pieces on the internet.

    Scary, huh?

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    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Scary, huh?
    Well, first of all I understand your point about Belarus chances to host WC - unfortunatelly for me and for Belarus, you are right probably.

    About Lukashenko and Hitler. Lukashenko is just, let's say, not so smart man without any respectable higher education, from pereferie and so on... And he says different stupid things not rarely. But he is not massive killer, that's for sure.

    When he told about Germany - yes it was scary, you right - but he meaned economic moethods mostly. His problem is that he talks but forgets to think a little sometimes...

  17. #17
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Btw, through my job, I have ties with high ranking officials of the European Commission as well as some of the foreign ministries of the EU member states.

    Maybe I should contact them to hear their view on Belarus' bid for the IHWC? Then we can get this issue clarified once and for all. Knowing these people, I'm quite certain that I'm not totally off the line.

  18. #18
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Maybe I should contact them to hear their view on Belarus' bid for the IHWC? Then we can get this issue clarified once and for all. Knowing these people, I'm quite certain that I'm not totally off the line.
    Yeah, will be interesting - of course, If you have free time for this. BUt I already imagine that they will answer something like you did. But interesting what do the think about Belarus chances in the long perspective?

  19. #19
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldair1808 View Post
    Yeah, will be interesting - of course, If you have free time for this. BUt I already imagine that they will answer something like you did. But interesting what do the think about Belarus chances in the long perspective?
    Hockeywise, I hope Belarus will host it in the longer term.

  20. #20
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Just for the record:

    The EU's and US's visa ban on Belarussian government officials started in 2004.

    To start with, the denial of entry comprised four top officials, including Minister of Interior, Vladimir Naumov and Sports Minister Yuri Sivakov.

    According to an investigation made by the Council of Europe (Doc.10064 of February,2004), Vladimir Naumov was explicitly involved in the disappearances of Yuri Zakharenko, former Minister of the Interior, Victor Gonchar, former Vice-Speaker of the Parliament of Belarus , Anatoly Krasovski, businessman, and Dmitri Zavadski, a cameraman for the Russian television.

    Based on this report, the European Union therefore decided that Vladimir Naumov, along with three other top officials, would be the very first to be denied entry to the EU. The US soon issued a similar ban.

    Why is this piece of information significant?

    Answer: Vladimir Naumov is also the president of Belarus' hockey federation!

    Do anybody still believe that this has no importance for Belarus chances of hosting the IHWC?

    ----
    You can read the Council of Europe report here.
    Look for instance at pg. 27 and 28 to see how explicitly Vladimir Naumov has been involved in the "disappearence" of the persons mentioned. Looks like he issued the execution order. And this is the guy who run the Belarus' hockey federation.
    Last edited by Karsten; 22-03-2007 at 01:52.

  21. #21
    IHF Member v-man's Avatar
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    I think Latvia has an extremely decent chance to get it again. The article I was forwarded stated that Fasel had said "if" Latvia builds a new arena it is more or less assured that they'll get it, and that he'd support it, not that they have it already. Where as they have the quickest growing economy in the EU, they also have the highest inflation and growing problems with personal credit debt. While from a population perspective they could support another large arena, it's sparse, Riga based population may cause problems with that. Of the 16 (I believe that was the last count) arenas in the country (They only had three 6 years ago), three may be forced to close soon due to lack of operating funds. Liepaja, the next largest city with a population that hovers between 80,000 - 100,000 would be the logical non-Riga choice, but the traffic infrastructure to there from Riga is not on international levels at the moment. It also lacks the number of hotels needed to house the players and fans. There are a lot of "ifs", but with the changes I saw in the country between 93 and 98 are any indication, they can for sure bring everything up to speed by 2013. From what my brother tells me, Belarus is stuck in the soviet days infrastructure wise, not to mention the political climate, so it's not a realistic option anytime soon. Although I support Hungary's efforts and congratulate them on their growing passion for the sport, I don't see how it would be fair to give it to them before their team is in the top 16.

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    IHF Member Sakaarnis's Avatar
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    Its quite a smart move from Fase saying "guys, if you build another arena just as pretty as Arena Riga, theres a good chance ull get to host event soon enaugh". Realisticly, no way Latvia (Riga for that matters) can afford another high capacity arena. As v-man correctly stressed Liepaja may have decent amount of population to build atleast a 6'000 arena, but infrastructure from RIga to Liepaja and inside the city doesnt fit standarts. Building Arena Riga was a high end drama for over 6 years and mind that we HAD to build it becouse we told IHF that we will. Now when they say, "build another one and we will consider" seems like a nice gesture, at the same time beliving this will not happen soon. Also, our government is trying to cool down inflation wich means no state support for luxury projects. Riga also has 3 big projects comming up where they need money, Dienvidu tilts is still in building progress, so no money from locals too. A pure privat capital? Doubt it...

    P.S. I would love to be proved wrong here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldair View Post
    Now you see what media can make with people, including yourself. Media didn't lie, but he don't tell all the truth and show facts it the light and perspective it wants. The same was during Israel summer war. All the Europe (exept England) thought (still thinking?) that Israel was a big agressor while Lebabon only suffered cause Europe is getting news mainly from french origin. The didn't lie, but they dind't tell what was happened in Israel. But close to the end of conflict some french minister was in Haifa making a friendly visit. Suddenly rocket attack has started. The guards took him to be coveraged under the nearest building. After that case, somewhy the aspects of french news got changed and revalued.
    Well, I'm sorry to intervene but what you're saying is more an example of how the media misinformed you.

    Indeed the incident you mention had a minor impact, was barely covered, and didn't affect French media at all.
    The Middle East conflict is the topic French media are the most careful about. It's because they always receive a lot of (opposite) letters from advocates from both sides accusing them of being too much pro-Israel or too much anti-Israel. Whatever they do or write, they know they will get letters saying they paid too much attention to X deaths because the other camp had 2X deaths, or saying the other camp was the first agressor and so on and so on.
    Every word the media use is analyzed, criticized, debated over and over.

    Of course, from the beginning, there were reports from everywhere (from the war zones in Southern Lebanon, from Beyrouth and other places, and from Northern Israel zones which got missiles).
    I know the difference between biased and unbiased information
    For example, the information in French media about Lebanon internal affairs has an obvious bias (anti-Syria, which doesn't reflect majority of Lebanon population). [You can think he's right to have anti-Syria bias, but the bias exists. The same about Belarus, by the way, except that Belarus has never been a hot topic and is barely mentioned]
    It's not the case with information about Israel conflicts, for aforementioned reasons. We have a lot of news from both sides, and a lot of quarrels (I would even say "too much" because most people here are probably tired about these perpetual debates except the extremists who can spend their lives arguing the same points)

    When I read "Europe is getting news mainly from french origin", I'm laughing. Even the most patriotic french dreamers here wouldn't believe that. French media influence is notoriously weak.
    That's the way it crumbles, cookie-wise

  24. #24
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    When I read "Europe is getting news mainly from french origin", I'm laughing. Even the most patriotic french dreamers here wouldn't believe that. French media influence is notoriously weak.
    Don't laugh too much. I meaned Eastern Europe, where "Euronews" channel is pretty popular...And this is one of the most cinic channels I've ever seen.

    But I think, this discussion must be closed. There is nothing to speak about, espesially in hockey thread.

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    It's not at all a French channel. Their headquarters are in Lyon, but they are controlled by a consortium of 19 public channels from 19 different countries. The pictures they're showing come from Associated Press, Reuters and the 19 aforementioned channels, so there isn't a dominant force.

    I haven't watched Euronews for years, but I knew them mainly for their "no comment" : only images without commentaries. Not that I'm particulary fond of their "visual content first" policy as the best way to convey information, still you can't put their impartiality in doubt : it's just a medium of the 19 channels.
    They haven't any star frontman (it's their policy) and they are certainly less biased than CNN or Al-Jazeera.

    The main biased influence is the fact they're paid by European Union to speak about EU (in a positive way, critics say, even if there is an Editorial Charter for impartiality), but it doesn't relate on international policy.
    That's the way it crumbles, cookie-wise

  26. #26
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It's not at all a French channel. Their headquarters are in Lyon, but they are controlled by a consortium of 19 public channels from 19 different countries. The pictures they're showing come from Associated Press, Reuters and the 19 aforementioned channels, so there isn't a dominant force.

    I haven't watched Euronews for years, but I knew them mainly for their "no comment" : only images without commentaries. Not that I'm particulary fond of their "visual content first" policy as the best way to convey information, still you can't put their impartiality in doubt : it's just a medium of the 19 channels.
    They haven't any star frontman (it's their policy) and they are certainly less biased than CNN or Al-Jazeera.

    The main biased influence is the fact they're paid by European Union to speak about EU (in a positive way, critics say, even if there is an Editorial Charter for impartiality), but it doesn't relate on international policy.
    Ok, Marc, I didn't know that (that it's not a french channel). and yes, thier "No comments" heading is what I'm talking abbout. I easily can bring a couple of examples that show that they are pro-arabic biased. And I agree about CNN and Al Jazeera for sure.

    If you think for a moment that I'm sure that only Israel had suffered and arabians not - you are wrong, I know perfectly what was happened in Lebanon and that from the two sides: I have a friends that were there during the war, and also I have a couple of arabic friends that have their families there.

    The only thing I'm trying to tell that Israel was mainly shown as a terrible agressors when poor lebanese people only suffered, andd our people not. That was was brought by this "No comments" heading. And please, don't argue with me on that. Again, I can easily show you examples of it. I think that you just don't know what was happened here in Israel during the war. TV showed you what happened in Lebabnon perfectly - but not in Israel. That's why I say they are pro-arabic biased.

    One more thing: don't think also that I have something againist France. Not at all, I love and respect this country very much with it's huge culture. Don't understand me wrong.

  27. #27
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    I didn't mean at all that you didn't know how Lebanon suffered. I just meant you might not know how French media really work (for example, Euronews has zero influence here, no one watches it)

    I can understand the problem with "no comment" : as I said, clips alone don't make information. Background info and comments do. What could appear as a good idea is not necessary a good idea.
    But it depends on what you do with information : if you use it as your only source, it's really stupid, because you don't understand anything. If you just use it as your secondary source, it means you can think twice if there is an image you can't relate to, and then you can question your primary source (why is there no info about this ?), then it becomes a critic, clever view on information.

    Again, I don't think I'm misinformed. There have been reports in Haifa, in Maalot, in Tel-Aviv, about daily life in Israel, and so on. I'd already read some pro-Israel agency websites, and nothing they wrote did convince me that I'm misinformed. They only stress one side of the problem and fake to ignore or minimize the other side, just as Palestina propagandists do. I'm used to it from both "sides".

    To be honest, I recognize only two sides : those who want peace (which I respect very much when they live in a country which suffers, as it must be very hard for them everyday ; hatred is always easier) and those who want war. I don't buy any "main agressor" or "tit for tat" idea.

    It's very different from a topic like Belarus : as there is very little information, people don't always have a clear vision of the complexity of the problem and just rely to one thing they heard about. With Israel/Palestine, there is much information (at least here)
    That's the way it crumbles, cookie-wise

  28. #28
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    It was a great explanation, thank you, Marc.

    Maybe you are right, but you are in minor. Just an average man can't understand that, IMO. Otherwise, this world would be much more peaceful.
    Last edited by Aldair; 04-04-2007 at 00:49. Reason: to avoid misunderstanding

  29. #29
    IHF Member takharov's Avatar
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    Well you guys are lucky in not having to put up with the distinctly left leaning BBC.

    Anyway getting back to hockey I'm sure Karsten can resolve this. What of the Hans Christian Andersen Arena in the suburb of Hoje Taastrup ? Doesn't this have provision for ice hockey ( with seating for around 14500 ?).

    Malmo is building I believe a new arena near the Oresund bridges terminus so why not a joint bid ? Denmark based on their improving performances (though this years juniors may be an over acheiving group according to some) surely deserve to at least jointly host it.

  30. #30
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takharov View Post
    Malmo is building I believe a new arena near the Oresund bridges terminus so why not a joint bid ? Denmark based on their improving performances (though this years juniors may be an over acheiving group according to some) surely deserve to at least jointly host it.
    I wouldn't swear that I didn't dream this, but I thought I'd read once that the IIHF were opposed to joint bids in principal...

    Graham.
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    The Czech Republic will seek to hold the 2013 ice hockey world championship as declared by Martin Urban, general director of the Czech Ice Hockey Association (CSLH)
    The CSLH executive committee has assigned Urban to take the required formal steps, according to local media.
    All the required documents must be prepared by the end of June, Urban said.
    The decision on the organiser of the championship will be made at the September congress of the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) in Vancouver.
    The Czech Republic, which was the organiser of the 2004 ice hockey world championship, already bid for the 2012 championship. However, it withdrew its candidacy before this year's election congress in Moscow and the tournament will be organised by Finland.
    The Czech bid will be contested by Sweden and Hungary, whose candidature did not succeed in Moscow, and also Latvia.

  32. #32
    IHF Member tux96's Avatar
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    If Czech Republic gets it again, they need to change a lot to become fan-friendly.

    Apart from the beer ban in Moscow, this was the by far worst championship in every single kind of restrictions for fans in the last years. I had the impression, that some people sat around a table, defined what fans had to do, when they had to do it and where they had to go afterwards. Consequently anything else was forbidden and any sideway was locked.
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  33. #33
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Although I was very thankful for you telling us where the 2nd, quieter beer tent was!

    Graham.
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  34. #34
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Belarus Belarus applicates to host WC 2013

    Belarus Federation has sent to IIHF an official application to host IHWC 2013. So right now there are 5 pretendents: Belarus, latvia, Hungaru and Sweden.

    The next step is preliminary plan presentation wich must be done by every country till the end of July.

  35. #35
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    Russia 2013?

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  36. #36
    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    That list doesn't have Sweden as an applicant for 2013 anymore. Have they withdrawn?

    If so, it seems to be an Eastern European one in 2013: Belarus, Hungary, Latvia or Russia. Could be a good chance for Belarus to get the games. I don't expect Hungary or Latvia to win it (one has no team at the elite level and the other hosted recently). Russia also hosted just six years prior to 2013 so Belarus could beat them if they have a good bid. If Sweden returns to the race, it's most likely that they will win it. It's "their turn" so to speak.
    "Lord Baelish, what you suggest is treason."
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  37. #37
    IHF Member DIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baechis View Post
    Well, really interesting... Have found just rumor talks about this, but not exactly information!!!

    IHWC (for example in Magnitogorsk, Omsk or Kazan) in 2013, and Olympics in 2014, that would be really fantastic!!!
    "Keep nothing in your house that you can't use or don't find beautiful" W.Morris :smart:

  38. #38
    IHF Member Irate-Pirate's Avatar
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    Yes, if Russia wins it in 2013 or let's say the next time they do win it, it would be great if they hosted it in a city that really loves hockey. No offence to Moscow or St.Petersburg but there is not so much interest there. Well, that is how it seems to me anyway.....

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Denmark? Could easily get it if it had the arena facilities (at least two arenas with a min. capacity of 8,000). Such arenas are not going to be built in the next 20 years (perhaps one, but not two), so you can count out Denmark as well.
    Isn't there a new 15,000+ seated arena being built or planned in Copenhagen? Would be sweet if Copenhagen and Malmö (with their new arena) could co-host a future WHC.

  40. #40
    IHF Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krm500 View Post
    Isn't there a new 15,000+ seated arena being built or planned in Copenhagen? Would be sweet if Copenhagen and Malmö (with their new arena) could co-host a future WHC.
    There was. You are thinking of HC. Andersen Arena. Unfortunately the company that was going to build it went bankrupt(as far as i know), and the project has more or less stranded. Correct me if i'm wrong, Karsten.

    Our national football arena(Parken) will be modified so it will turn into 2 big multiarenas(capacity 15.000 for the one and 20.000 for the other one).
    Unfortunately it won't host hockey as far as i know(correct me again if i'm wrong).

    However we might see another arena, but Karsten knows more about the status.

  41. #41
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldair View Post
    Belarus Federation has sent to IIHF an official application to host IHWC 2013. So right now there are 5 pretendents: Belarus, latvia, Hungaru and Sweden.

    The next step is preliminary plan presentation wich must be done by every country till the end of July.
    Quote Originally Posted by Irate-Pirate View Post
    Yes, if Russia wins it in 2013 or let's say the next time they do win it, it would be great if they hosted it in a city that really loves hockey. No offence to Moscow or St.Petersburg but there is not so much interest there. Well, that is how it seems to me anyway.....
    You can likely count Russia in. One week ago, Valentina Matvienko, the mayor of St. Petersburg send the Russian prime minister a letter to receive support for St. Petersburg as a host city. If the government supports St. Petersburg's bid, The Russian federation will forward a formal nomination. However, there's not much time less...

  42. #42
    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    Belarus


    In the end of passed week there was a session of IIHF after that has became known that Belarus is still in the list of candidates.

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    According to a small article published today not only Ferenc Studniczky (president of Hungarian Icehockey Federation) and Zoltįn Kovįcs (General Secretary of HIHF) will try to convince representatives of IIHF countries about giving the 2013 games to Hungary, but also Vancouver Canucks player, Brendan Morrison will join them to support the hungarian bid. :)))

    Morrison's parents lived in Hungary for a couple of years (his father worked here), that seems to be the only connection between Hungary and the canadian player.

    The article mentioned only the Czech Republic, Sweden and Belarus as other possible candidates.

    Decision will be made on 20th September.
    „HOCKEY IS WHERE WE LIVE

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    VANCOUVER, Canada -- September 20, -- As the IIHF Semi-Annual Congress kicked off in Vancouver, Canada today, perhaps the biggest news for hockey fans and member federations was the possibility of seeing the IIHF World Championship go from 16 to 14 participating teams.

    "We are looking at the possibility of going to 14 teams, divided into two groups of seven," Sports Committee Chairman and IIHF Vice President Kalervo Kummola confirmed. No timeline for the potential change was specified. But if the the next congress approves the Sports Committee proposal, the new format could be in place possibly for 2010 (Germany), 2011 (Slovakia) or 2012 (Finland).

    ... only two groups, good idea. But they even can play with 16 teams in two groups. What do you think about only 14 teams?

    2013 I hope for Sweden!
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  45. #45
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    Sweden

    After four misses, Sweden finally gets the championship

    VANCOUVER, Canada -- September 21 -- Sweden won the right to host the 2013 IIHF Championship at the IIHF Semi-Annual Congress today, beating out Belarus, the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Latvia.
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  46. #46
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    You just know the Hungarians aren't going to quit until they get it.

  47. #47
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    You just know the Hungarians aren't going to quit until they get it.
    They will eventually get, but only when they promote to the elite division and prove they can stay there.

    I guess Sweden was compensated after failing to receive support to host the 2012 IHWC (coinciding with the 90 year anniversary of the establishment of the Swedish hockey federation).

    Here are the votes:

    Sweden 70 (73%)
    Belarus 15 (16%)
    Hungary 8 (8%)
    Czech republic 3 (3%)

    Latvia withdrew its application. The Swedish federation writes its uncertain what happened to the Russian application.

    The 2013 IHWC will take place in Stockholm and Malmö.

    It will be the 10th time Sweden hosts the world championships (also a kind of anniversary 8)

  48. #48
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    It going to be fun. Malmö is more or less a part of Denmark, so this is actually our own back yarrd ;)

  49. #49
    IHF Member leksandstars's Avatar
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    Hihi Backyard, yeah just a short bridge between Swedens third biggest city and Denmarks capital..
    But as you others said id rahter see that Sweden - Denmark co host a WC..

    And someone in this thread said Denmark has to build a arena with not less then 8000 in capacity?

    in 2002 sweden held its latest WC and some teams played in the new built Kinnaprs arena that back then had a capacity of maximum 6000??
    Now they have expanded it to some more i think, and anyone knows which capacity the new arena in Malmö will have??

    I feel really sorry for the guy building it that have spent so much much money on it just to see MIF Redhawks advance for Elitserien in sweden , now they are playing second highest with a good team and the biggest arena in Sweden? lmao..
    I want to see arenas with nhl capacity 15 000+
    But in sweden only some teams have maximum attendance per game,..

  50. #50
    IHF Member rusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    It going to be fun. Malmö is more or less a part of Denmark, so this is actually our own back yarrd ;)
    Not far from Latvia too, I think there will be many Latvians as always :)

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