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Thread: 2010 IIHF World Championship in Germany - News/discussion

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    Yes, game was shown on DSF, wich is now called "Sport 1".

    Second game between germany and norway ended with score: 8-2.
    sport 1 shows the match BLR-GER on saturday live

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    Norway lost against austria and hungary?!

    Ok maybe they are missing a lot of key-players. And its just testgames.
    But still it surprised me a little bit.
    yes, like Germany

  3. #153
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stony View Post
    sport 1 shows the match BLR-GER on saturday live
    That game might not even be played though. If SUI,GER and SVK can´t travel to Belarus because of the air traffic restrictions, the teams will talk about playing some mini tournament at a place that is in the middle between GER,SUI and Slovakia according to the Slovak federation.

    If the tournament in Belarus will be played, STV3 will show all Slovakia´s games according to their programme, so there should be an online feed as well.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    My prediction that Belarus will finish at the bottom of its pool is looking better and better.....not having Mezin is a HUGE loss for them.
    Koval is in my opinion quite a good replacement, I don't think that this would be the main reason for having a bad WC:

  5. #155
    IHF Member Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonas View Post
    Koval is in my opinion quite a good replacement, I don't think that this would be the main reason for having a bad WC:
    Agreed. Koval is a good keeper, they will be fine with him as well.
    My articles at The Hockey Writers

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by kun View Post
    I think Canada is going to surprise a lot of people with this line up. With the failure of the u18, that's going to spark a lot of emotion, as well, as wanting to get revenge on Russia.
    "With the failure of the u18, that's going to spark a lot of emotion"?
    Are you serious?
    The u18 team, in comparison to the u20's, rates hardly a mention in the press.
    I bet a scant few watched the game Sunday morning against Sweden.
    The only thing the u18 team has in common with the team Canada sends to the WHC each spring
    is that it is made of of the best available players not the best players.
    That, and the fact both teams are hastily cobbled together with their respective coaches hoping
    the teams they assembled gel into cohesive units.
    Obviously, this year's u18 team never achieved the chemistry that was hoped for.
    With the WHC's, it's largely the same process.
    Canada has been fortunate in recent years to able to send very good teams with many players
    eventually making their first appearances on the Olympic team.
    How Canada fares at this year's championships depends ontwo things.
    One, how talented and deep a team canada is able to assemble and secondly, how much talent
    their opponents can obtain for their teams.
    Every major hockey nation is in the same predicament, really.

  7. #157
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    The u18 team, in comparison to the u20's, rates hardly a mention in the press..
    Sorry, you're wrong. It's been mentioned on all the sports websites like Yahoo, ESPN, especially TSN with numerous articles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heatleysucks View Post

    The only thing the u18 team has in common with the team Canada sends to the WHC each spring is that it is made of of the best available players not the best players.
    Respectfully disagree. I'm also not going to get into a argument over this, since I've been musing over threads to both sides of the arguments on the hf boards and on the TSN boards. My conclusion is you're wrong if you think this tournament isn't a failure for TEAM Canada. You will definitely find an argument against you with on this board from someone else.
    That, and the fact both teams are hastily cobbled together with their respective coaches hoping the teams they assembled gel into cohesive units.
    Which is precisely why they failed, and, Guy mentioned something about being too cocky.

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    Unfortunately, Spartak Moscow captain Dmitriy Upper won't play for Kazakhstan at this WC. The reason is the same - problems with new contract.
    Kazakhstan without:
    Nikolay Antropov
    Dmitriy Upper
    Fedor Polischuk
    Alexey Troschinsky
    I think these four along with goalie V. Eremeev are the leaders of our national team. Very sad.

  9. #159
    IHF Member SLAJA's Avatar
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    Germany

    This is the list of the Germans who cannot play in WC because they are in NHL playoffs:
    (in brakets is the # of points in NHL 09-10 regular season)

    *Christian Ehrhoff (44)
    *Jochen Hecht (42)
    *Marco Sturm (37)
    *Dennis Seidenberg (32)
    *Marcel Goc (30)

    Goalie
    *Thomas Greiss (7w, .912%)
    ***СЛАЯ***

  10. #160
    IHF Member Geoff's Avatar
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    There is still a chance for them to play. If this is like any other year, I think we'll see late additions after the first round is over.

  11. #161
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    Any livestream for germany - switzerland this evening available?

  12. #162
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    Is there anyone as discontent as me with the IIHF website and their coverage of IHWC? There's the annual flagship tournament and the only way to get the standings in the groups is on a pdf file...no nice looking tables, no stats immediately access- and sortable. And on top of it all in the multi-media age they don't even offer compact game highlights right on the website but instead anyone interested has to go and search. This is completely anachronistic and everything else than professional.

  13. #163
    IHF Member Toni's Avatar
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    Second that!

    Well, at least the Power Rankings are still there.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    Is there anyone as discontent as me with the IIHF website and their coverage of IHWC? There's the annual flagship tournament and the only way to get the standings in the groups is on a pdf file...no nice looking tables, no stats immediately access- and sortable. And on top of it all in the multi-media age they don't even offer compact game highlights right on the website but instead anyone interested has to go and search. This is completely anachronistic and everything else than professional.
    Well, it´s the IIHF after all.
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  15. #165
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    Fortunate placement for Canada

    At this point, the tournament seems to be about who can avoid meeting Russia the latest. If Canada can begin winning, their opponents after the Czech Republic are likely to be Finland and then Sweden or Switzerland before the gold medal game.

    Russia would likely have loomed earlier had Canada placed a little better in qualifying.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangblague View Post
    At this point, the tournament seems to be about who can avoid meeting Russia the latest. If Canada can begin winning, their opponents after the Czech Republic are likely to be Finland and then Sweden or Switzerland before the gold medal game.

    Russia would likely have loomed earlier had Canada placed a little better in qualifying.
    You really didn't have to open new topic to write this post. There is thread to discuss WC in Germany.
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  17. #167
    IHF Member RiaRiaHungaria's Avatar
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    I'd have to agree... I've been hunting for information anywhere *besides* the IIHF website. For DIII info, sure, I understand, but for the top level competition, it's a bit absurd.

  18. #168
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    http://www.iihf.com/en/home-of-hocke...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=5a8a34bf9d


    I love this part

    How can a player who is 22 or 25 or 27, and who was just eliminated from the playoffs be tired? Tired is a miner who works in a damp pit in Miktivka, in the Donetz Plateau in Ukraine, who never sees daylight and who provides living for a family of five in a modest two-room apartment. That is tired.
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouellette View Post
    http://www.iihf.com/en/home-of-hocke...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=5a8a34bf9d


    I love this part

    How can a player who is 22 or 25 or 27, and who was just eliminated from the playoffs be tired? Tired is a miner who works in a damp pit in Miktivka, in the Donetz Plateau in Ukraine, who never sees daylight and who provides living for a family of five in a modest two-room apartment. That is tired.
    That was my favorite part too! It was such a truthful article.

    IH is back !!

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouellette View Post
    How can a player who is 22 or 25 or 27, and who was just eliminated from the playoffs be tired? Tired is a miner who works in a damp pit in Miktivka, in the Donetz Plateau in Ukraine, who never sees daylight and who provides living for a family of five in a modest two-room apartment. That is tired.
    Exactly. Tired is a football player who has to play a game every seven days.

    Oh, hold on. That's not right, either...

    Graham.
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  21. #171
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    Very good article.
    BTW, football players, most of them play about 40-50 games for club every single season, sometimes more. Moreover they playing for national team a few more games, and nobody declined invitation for tournament like World Championship or Continental Championship, moreover, every want to be in team. Every bigger tournament is played in every two years for each player, and every of this tournament, except Copa America, have an elimination stage before tournament. So there is no excuse for hockey players, which declined an invitation.
    Bo gdyby, ach gdyby wszystko na tym świecie dało się rostrzygać na lodowiskach, w trzech tercjach, kijem i krążkiem, to nie tylko wszak kanadyjskim zawodowcom z NHL, nie tylko wiarołomnym antysocjalistycznym Czechom, ale całemu światu, ba, nawet duszmanom z Pandższiru, Heratu i Kandaharu spuściłaby tęgi a druzgocący wpierdol hokejowa reprezentacja ZSRR, a w jej składzie Ragulin, Fetisow, Kasatonow oraz, bladź, Kapustin, Golikow i Malcew.

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  22. #172
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    I think its a quite useless piece of moralism. He's asking why so many Swedish stars deny while the Russians do not. Well, does anybody know what the Russian federation is offering as a compensation and what the Swedish federation is? Without that tiny little detail cursing the ones and praising the others is not well backed up.

    Don't get me wrong I'd like it a lot if IHWC was a must be there tounrey for all the players like the World Cup is in soccer but these two tourneys are not comparable. The one is a huge commercially successful cash cow for almost everyone invloved (maybe not the host counties' budgets ;-) including the players. The other is a tiny side note in the international sports scene and a distant second to high caliber club hockey in terms of stakes involved. So the comparison between football players showing up for the World Cup and hockey players failing to do so is quite easy to explain: money....

    Apart from this I don't even see the moral obligation he claims to be in place for the players because of their indebtedness towards their national federations. National team hockey is only one specific activity a national governing body typically pursues embedded in the general aim to foster and grow the sport as a whole. National team hockey on a high athletic level only exists because of professionalism in the sport carried by the clubs. Federations can contribute a lot to a system, they can shape it and put an excellence program on top of it to feed their national teams but all of this depends on the clubs providing the grass root level as well as the top level which makes the players being professionals possible. And in most countries I suspect that the players pay a good sahre of their education themselves via club fees etc. True, the federtions channel money into the system but this is a part of what they are supposed to do - provide public goods for the system as a whole for the sake of the sport as a whole and not just purely for the national team. This is true for excellence programs to develop the cream of the crop and to much greater extent for the basics provided like referees, rinks etc. With the current relative importance (in the economic sense) of club versus national team hockey there's just nothing to wonder about players in general favoring the one over the other if only a slight conflict of interest arises. If the IIHF and the national federations want their tourneys to be more important to the sport than they think they are perceived right now by clubs and players they should in first place work for national team hockey to actually become more important and attractive. If they succed in that there's no need to whine about presumably immoral and selfish players who prefer to stay home. If IHWC actually had an attractiveness and importance only remotely close to what the IIHF thinks it should have the players would show up because the stakes involved were higher also for them - just as in soccer. So they should start to think about how to get the arenas full in all games, how to get the games on TV in a wider market, how to make the tournament more competitve. Despite the uprising of the minor nations this year international hockey is not balanced at all. The winners or medalists are over and over again the same with no team outside the usual suspects having a real chance. Hard to change that but that's a fundamental just like making yourself rare sometimes....

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    The winners or medalists are over and over again the same with no team outside the usual suspects having a real chance.
    Just like in other major team sports. Look at football, Italy, Brasil, Argentina and Germany share majority of titles (two times Urugvay, one's France and England).

    Handball - Germany, France, Spain, Croatia, Sweden, Russia. Those are WC winners since 1990.

    Basketball - Yugoslavia (after and before 1990.), CCCP, USA, Spain, Brazil and Argentina (both of those latin countries won it in 60-s).

    Waterpollo - Hungary, Serbia, Italy, Croatia. Outside of those countries as far as my memory serves me nobody took gold home.

    So, I want to say that in other sports as well winners of medals are usually the same, with rare exceptions, like Croatia taking a bronze in football (1998.) or Poland taking a silver in handball in 2007.
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  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouellette View Post
    Just like in other major team sports. Look at football, Italy, Brasil, Argentina and Germany share majority of titles (two times Urugvay, one's France and England).

    Handball - Germany, France, Spain, Croatia, Sweden, Russia. Those are WC winners since 1990.

    Basketball - Yugoslavia (after and before 1990.), CCCP, USA, Spain, Brazil and Argentina (both of those latin countries won it in 60-s).

    Waterpollo - Hungary, Serbia, Italy, Croatia. Outside of those countries as far as my memory serves me nobody took gold home.

    So, I want to say that in other sports as well winners of medals are usually the same, with rare exceptions, like Croatia taking a bronze in football (1998.) or Poland taking a silver in handball in 2007.
    That's true. But if you go one or even more steps further you will see that the set of teams that are extremely likely to beat all other teams not belonging to this set 9 out of 10 times they play is very small. I claim that it is relatively smaller than in most other team sports but certainly smaller than in football. In other words hockey is extremely hierachical such that teams historically belonging to a lower level class have little to no chance of doing well against teams from a higher class. How often did Canada for instance lose against a non top 7 country? Or how often does a mid eite country like Switzerland or Latvia lose against a lower end elite country like Austria or Slovenia. And then how often do teams like Austria or Slovenia lose to the division 1 mainstays...

    I think in hardly any other team sports the seperation between teams as you move down the ranks is as acurate and hard to overcome than in hockey. It's hard to pin down where this exactly comes from however. It has to do with the immense requirements hockey puts towards an athlete and the training and appropriate circumstances necessary to make someone exploit his "talent" and the fact that that high frequency sports (games with a higher possible rate of scoring chances) are more likely to seperate according to skill than those with lower frequency. With that respect the international competitivity of hockey suffers in two dimensions: the first is I think technological as lined out above and the second is a consequence of the first - due to the fact that it is a very expansive sport only few people in few countries adopt it which keeps the base of the sport narrow.
    International hockey imho suffers from this immobility and restrictedness compared to other games and it's apparent attractors like speed, physicality plus finesse in a two very different dimensions (stickhandling/shooting/passing and skating) have a hard time to make up this deficit on the bigger market for entertainment.

  25. #175
    IHF Member Hansi's Avatar
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    1/4 finals

    Russia v Canada
    Sweden v Denmark
    Finland v Czech Rep.
    Swiss v Germany

    having seen almost all teams at the tournament, Russia and Sweden are my favs to reach the final and Russia to win. was well impressed by the sbornaja but also sweden's fast transition game was amazing to watch today...

    my personal disappointments are the 2 north-american teams, USA more active in German nightclubs than at practice and Canada without passion. hope that will change in their tie against russia, otherwise they'll get destroyed....

    great atmosphere at almost all games I watched, the france v kasachstan had 6000 schoolchilden watching, who couldnt decide which team to cheer for, so they cheered both...

    also good to see fans from countries not participating, who just came for hockey and to celebrate with fellow fans (I saw dutch, belgians, irish, austrians, poles, luxemburg fans and a couple with nottingham panthers jerseys...)
    Gott mit dir, du Land der Bayern, deutsche Erde, Vaterland! Über deinen weiten Gauen ruhe seine Segenshand! Er behüte deine Fluren, schirme deiner Städte Bau, und erhalte dir die Farben seines Himmels, weiß und blau!

    Gott mit dir, dem Bayernvolke, dass wir, uns'rer Väter wert, fest in Eintracht und in Frieden bauen uns'res Glückes Herd! Dass mit Deutschlands Bruderstämmen einig uns ein jeder schau und den alten Ruhm bewähre unser Banner, weiß und blau!

  26. #176
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    I think in hardly any other team sports the seperation between teams as you move down the ranks is as acurate and hard to overcome than in hockey. It's hard to pin down where this exactly comes from however. It has to do with the immense requirements hockey puts towards an athlete and the training and appropriate circumstances necessary to make someone exploit his "talent" and the fact that that high frequency sports (games with a higher possible rate of scoring chances) are more likely to seperate according to skill than those with lower frequency. With that respect the international competitivity of hockey suffers in two dimensions: the first is I think technological as lined out above and the second is a consequence of the first - due to the fact that it is a very expansive sport only few people in few countries adopt it which keeps the base of the sport narrow.
    I'm not sure I agree with this, as I think the reasons you outline are common in too many other sports.

    I think the main reason that hockey has more predictability in its results is because it is an offensive sport. In defensive games like football, it is easier to win a game that you were outclassed in by scoring one lucky goal and spending the other 85 minutes frantically trying to defend your lead. Hockey is too offensive for that. Therefore, the strongest generally win; when they don't it is almost always down to an amazing performance by the weaker team's netminder alone.

    And I think that this is exaggerated at the IHWC by the seeding system. Splitting the divisions into groups means that you have a 12 team spread in the lower divisions. In a sport where there are relatively few upsets, this exaggerates the issue. Even in the elite division, you get relatively few shocks in the first round because of the 16 team spread. When we get shocks, its down to a sub-performing top seed who hasn't prepared for the tournament well due to its timing with national leagues rather than an outclassed team "stealing" a win.

    Certainly in the lower division, I think they need to scrap the groups and have divisions of six teams. That would increase the number of games with relative parity between both teams and reduce the number of times that the points in the final table are 15-12-9-6-3-0.

    Graham.
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  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with this, as I think the reasons you outline are common in too many other sports.

    I think the main reason that hockey has more predictability in its results is because it is an offensive sport. In defensive games like football, it is easier to win a game that you were outclassed in by scoring one lucky goal and spending the other 85 minutes frantically trying to defend your lead. Hockey is too offensive for that. Therefore, the strongest generally win; when they don't it is almost always down to an amazing performance by the weaker team's netminder alone.

    And I think that this is exaggerated at the IHWC by the seeding system. Splitting the divisions into groups means that you have a 12 team spread in the lower divisions. In a sport where there are relatively few upsets, this exaggerates the issue. Even in the elite division, you get relatively few shocks in the first round because of the 16 team spread. When we get shocks, its down to a sub-performing top seed who hasn't prepared for the tournament well due to its timing with national leagues rather than an outclassed team "stealing" a win.

    Certainly in the lower division, I think they need to scrap the groups and have divisions of six teams. That would increase the number of games with relative parity between both teams and reduce the number of times that the points in the final table are 15-12-9-6-3-0.

    Graham.
    I think by your first paragraph you pretty much say what I tried to express with this "high frequency" argument (don't know if the term is good or not I admit). In hockey scoring chances occur potentially in a high rate as the game and its setting allow evading an opponent's pressure and slowing down the game to a lesser extent then other game sports.

    Still I think that the clear separation of (national) teams along the lines of their typical strength is biased favourably towards the countrie's with a bigger system because of the extremely strong sensitivity of a players abilities to flaws in his/her development.

    Everything else I completely agree with you - especially about the parallel groups on the levels below the top tier. Especially divison I is affected by this and the tournament often comes down to only one or two competitive games for each team...

  28. #178
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    IIHF's political police removed the article "Saying No To Your Country" from its official site. Apparently, Crosby's and other "stars'" managers got upset by the direct tone of the article.

    Fassel, the veasel as he is, promptly obeyed his masters' wish. I am getting sick of IIHF, Fassel and everything they represent.

  29. #179
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    To be honest, I agree with RexKramer; it was a very poor piece in the first place. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised that it's provoked the response that it has. It certainly wasn't a piece of journalism that I particularly respected. It came across more as a non-journalists blog and that is not the correct tone for an official IIHF editorial piece.

    North America doesn't care about the World Championships. The IIHF just need to accept that or change the format to something that they will care about. The tone in this piece by the IIHF was, frankly, pathetic.

    Graham.
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  30. #180
    IHF Member jaaa's Avatar
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    I agree with Graham, the article was not something you should see on the official website of a serious sports organization. I believe that the IIHF should rather concentrate on providing a better coverage from the actual tournament than this.
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

  31. #181
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    The new world ranking is out and can be found here.

    I have a world ranking with the same principles, but not counting the olympic games. Just taking into account the world championships, the picture is a little different, most notable is that Slovakia is down in 13th place...

    RankCountryRanking points
    1RUS2940
    2SWE2785
    3CAN2770
    4CZE2765
    5FIN2685
    6SUI2540
    7USA2490
    8GER2440
    9BLR2400
    10NOR2365
    11DEN2345
    12LAT2345
    13SVK2325
    14FRA2160
    15ITA2060
    16AUT2055
    17KAZ1970
    18SLO1970
    19HUN1935
    20UKR1900
    21JPN1795
    22POL1745
    23GBR1710
    24NED1620
    25LTU1600
    26CRO1495
    27KOR1485
    28EST1420
    29ROU1385
    30SRB1355
    31AUS1350
    32ESP1250
    33BEL1240
    34CHN1120
    35ISL1095
    36BUL1040
    37MEX1020
    38ISR970
    39NZL925
    40TUR785
    41IRL750
    42RSA735
    43PRK730
    44LUX665
    45GRE595
    46MGL540
    47UAE220
    48BIH100
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

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