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Thread: Iihl/iihrd 2009-2010

  1. #51
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Well, my biggest thought was that the 100-day issue could have easily been discussed, maybe a couple other matters as well

    Regarding on-ice officiating, that's something that will take a few years to sort out. AFAIK most officials had never called a game until the first IIHL game just a couple years ago. Guys that call my rec league are not great either, and they've in some cases been wearing stripes for 25 years. Having officiating camps on a regular basis (annual for example) is something that could help, and I've heard that there was cooperation with the heads of officiating in a couple more established nations, but that's one that only time can fix.

  2. #52
    IHF Member MoNsToUr's Avatar
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    First game back in the league was last night between the dundalk bulls and the charlestown cheifs with the bulls coming out on top 6-3... its the cheifs first lost this season and judging by the way they played last night it wont be long untill they start falling down into a losing spiral
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  3. #53
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    no way!!

    what happened to them?

  4. #54
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoNsToUr View Post
    First game back in the league was last night between the dundalk bulls and the charlestown cheifs with the bulls coming out on top 6-3... its the cheifs first lost this season and judging by the way they played last night it wont be long untill they start falling down into a losing spiral
    Martin Grant told me they (Chiefs)were without many of their best players and only had 2 lines, not to take away from the Bulls who Sean Dooley has turned into a good unit. Lots of ice time for Irish talent Martin said.

    Hard to go into a losing spiral if there are only two teams involved I would think.

  5. #55
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    So there's some news to be had from the Irish side.

    After a tumultuous holiday season which saw the Dublin Rams withdraw from the IIHL and apparently disband as a club, and prominent rumours that the Castlereagh Spartans would follow suit, the IIHL cancelled matches through January to try and work through some difficulties.
    These issues have apparently been ironed out and the league is set to get back on the ice as of February 5th. Four teams remain: the Spartans, Flyers I.H.C., the Dundalk Bulls and the Charlestown Chiefs.

    During this time the IIHLRD has been continuing without a hitch, and after the first half of the season the two groups have been split by strength into the Recreational Division (Whalers, Blackhawks, Hawks B, Blackrock Whalers, Ice Breakers) and the Development Division (Flyers B, Bulls B, Ice Vixens and Lady Bulls)
    Just to clarify although they have withdrawn - as a club they have not disbanded.

  6. #56
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Well, my biggest thought was that the 100-day issue could have easily been discussed, maybe a couple other matters as well

    Regarding on-ice officiating, that's something that will take a few years to sort out. AFAIK most officials had never called a game until the first IIHL game just a couple years ago. Guys that call my rec league are not great either, and they've in some cases been wearing stripes for 25 years. Having officiating camps on a regular basis (annual for example) is something that could help, and I've heard that there was cooperation with the heads of officiating in a couple more established nations, but that's one that only time can fix.
    This is in no way a reflection on the Discipline Committee I would like to say on behalf of the player and the team, rather they were not informed about the offence, despite many requests by the player for a hearing. It actually took 105 days from "Offence" to hearing and the player was charged with Making a travesty of the game but eventually it was found there was no case to answer
    Perhaps this might shed some light on why a team could feel victimised.

  7. #57
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    This is in no way a reflection on the Discipline Committee I would like to say on behalf of the player and the team, rather they were not informed about the offence, despite many requests by the player for a hearing. It actually took 105 days from "Offence" to hearing and the player was charged with Making a travesty of the game but eventually it was found there was no case to answer
    Perhaps this might shed some light on why a team could feel victimised.
    Thanks for the clarification, Mick, on this and your other posts.

    "Making a travesty of the game"... if that was really an offense then we'd have something to use against Sean Avery.

  8. #58
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    Wow ..i never considered myself to be like Sean Avery

  9. #59
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    "Making a travesty of the game"... if that was really an offense then we'd have something to use against Sean Avery.
    It is in the rulebook. It was what Grant Slater got called for in Scotland in the late 90s when he got his lifetime ban.

    Graham.
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  10. #60
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    MORE BAD NEWS

    2009/10 Season Update
    Written by PRO@FlyersIHC

    Print

    Flyers LogoFlyers Ice Hockey Club will not run a training session in Dundalk Ice Dome on Tuesday, 30th of March. Between the costs involved with paying for ice time and the low numbers turning out to training due to a lack of motivation in the absence of a viable game schedule from the IIHA, we realise it is unrealistic to expect players to pay €15 for training in addition to the costs of travel to the rink. As the result of another troubled season, the Flyers Ice Hockey Club has informed the IIHA that we consider the 2009/10 IIHL season over and that the club will take no further part. Suggestions to play games with triple point value are just not realistic or an option the Flyers Ice Hockey Club is willing to be associated with. Further schedule drafts from the IIHA have simply been too little too late. The Flyers Ice Hockey Club has been at the forefront of Irish Ice Hockey since the introduction of the sport to Ireland and wish to see a domestic Irish league established that can provide teams with good games, fair play, acceptable officiating, the integrity associated with the sport of hockey, and a schedule that provides teams with something to look forward to week in and week out for the duration of a season. We appreciate our players require a reason to drive, in some cases very long distances, to train/play and accept we must hold the IIHA accountable to provide that reason.



    The Flyers Ice Hockey Club, including all Executive Members and Coaching Staff, are fully open to providing the IIHA with any and all assistance to the planning and execution of the 2010/11 season. We suggest the next IIHL season becomes the primary focus of the Irish Ice Hockey Association now, as the past two seasons have not provided teams with a league that players to want to participate in.



    If any IIHA or any team wish to discuss the future of Irish Ice Hockey please do not hesitate to contact us.



    Will Fitzgerald
    Public Relations Officer
    Flyers Ice Hockey Club

  11. #61
    IHF Prospect G Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    MORE BAD NEWS

    2009/10 Season Update
    Written by PRO@FlyersIHC

    Print

    Flyers LogoFlyers Ice Hockey Club will not run a training session in Dundalk Ice Dome on Tuesday, 30th of March. Between the costs involved with paying for ice time and the low numbers turning out to training due to a lack of motivation in the absence of a viable game schedule from the IIHA, we realise it is unrealistic to expect players to pay Ä15 for training in addition to the costs of travel to the rink. As the result of another troubled season, the Flyers Ice Hockey Club has informed the IIHA that we consider the 2009/10 IIHL season over and that the club will take no further part. Suggestions to play games with triple point value are just not realistic or an option the Flyers Ice Hockey Club is willing to be associated with. Further schedule drafts from the IIHA have simply been too little too late. The Flyers Ice Hockey Club has been at the forefront of Irish Ice Hockey since the introduction of the sport to Ireland and wish to see a domestic Irish league established that can provide teams with good games, fair play, acceptable officiating, the integrity associated with the sport of hockey, and a schedule that provides teams with something to look forward to week in and week out for the duration of a season. We appreciate our players require a reason to drive, in some cases very long distances, to train/play and accept we must hold the IIHA accountable to provide that reason.



    The Flyers Ice Hockey Club, including all Executive Members and Coaching Staff, are fully open to providing the IIHA with any and all assistance to the planning and execution of the 2010/11 season. We suggest the next IIHL season becomes the primary focus of the Irish Ice Hockey Association now, as the past two seasons have not provided teams with a league that players to want to participate in.



    If any IIHA or any team wish to discuss the future of Irish Ice Hockey please do not hesitate to contact us.



    Will Fitzgerald
    Public Relations Officer
    Flyers Ice Hockey Club
    Bad news again. havent seen a game this year for numerous reasons but was going to start but it looks like the season is over.......
    Ice hockey support seems to be dwindling in ireland, a different irish hockey forum website is no more and the iihl website hasnt been updated in 2months plus with this news I cant see it improving!
    Gerry

  12. #62
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Ireland Yes these are dark day's for the IIHA.

    Quote Originally Posted by G Boy View Post
    Bad news again. havent seen a game this year for numerous reasons but was going to start but it looks like the season is over.......
    Ice hockey support seems to be dwindling in ireland, a different irish hockey forum website is no more and the iihl website hasnt been updated in 2months plus with this news I cant see it improving!
    Bad enough that you have not seen any games, some IIHL players have paid their subs, registration, insurance, travelled to Dundalk on numerous occasions incurring travel and toll charges, purchased new equipment and managed to play only one game this year. A very poor return on all the promises that were made. IIHA.org still has not announced the U18 team that would represent us in Mexico despite the fact that they have returned from the competition a couple of weeks ago. No reports have appeared on their progress and the pictures and articles that are there concern two players either just before or after the trip to New Zealand a year ago. There has been no word on the progress of the Senior Team.
    A major threat to the continued participation of young players from Northern Ireland in the Team Ireland set up has not yet been dealt with, and there appears to be little or no leadership in evidence. This eligability issue is a remarkable reversal of the status quo and it would appear to have been accepted in a docile fashion with no apparent appetite to get to grips with this or the other problems causing the rapid demise of the sport in Ireland. Nothing has been done to investigate the systematic intrusion into the Associations email infrastructure or the confessions of phonetapping made at a meeting where those now running the Association seized power on November 1st.
    Two of the most progressive and longest established clubs in the country have walked away from the IIHA in disgust at the way things are going and I wonder if the sport can endure another year of this Executive and survive.
    People, your sport needs you right now, apathy and silence are not what will arrest this slide, you need to speak up and say This is not acceptable Hockey has survived and thrived with no icerink in the country, it will not survive into the future without a backbone in it's supporters and participants.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Bad enough that you have not seen any games, some IIHL players have paid their subs, registration, insurance, travelled to Dundalk on numerous occasions incurring travel and toll charges, purchased new equipment and managed to play only one game this year. A very poor return on all the promises that were made. IIHA.org still has not announced the U18 team that would represent us in Mexico despite the fact that they have returned from the competition a couple of weeks ago. No reports have appeared on their progress and the pictures and articles that are there concern two players either just before or after the trip to New Zealand a year ago. There has been no word on the progress of the Senior Team.
    A major threat to the continued participation of young players from Northern Ireland in the Team Ireland set up has not yet been dealt with, and there appears to be little or no leadership in evidence. This eligability issue is a remarkable reversal of the status quo and it would appear to have been accepted in a docile fashion with no apparent appetite to get to grips with this or the other problems causing the rapid demise of the sport in Ireland. Nothing has been done to investigate the systematic intrusion into the Associations email infrastructure or the confessions of phonetapping made at a meeting where those now running the Association seized power on November 1st.
    Two of the most progressive and longest established clubs in the country have walked away from the IIHA in disgust at the way things are going and I wonder if the sport can endure another year of this Executive and survive.
    People, your sport needs you right now, apathy and silence are not what will arrest this slide, you need to speak up and say This is not acceptable Hockey has survived and thrived with no icerink in the country, it will not survive into the future without a backbone in it's supporters and participants.
    quite disturbing stuff. Who are you if I may ask and how do you know all this?

  14. #64
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seannie View Post
    quite disturbing stuff. Who are you if I may ask and how do you know all this?
    What do you know of the early development of Irish ice hockey and the group of people who started it and kept it alive through the times when the Dublin rinks shut down?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    What do you know of the early development of Irish ice hockey and the group of people who started it and kept it alive through the times when the Dublin rinks shut down?
    very little. why? what do you know?

  16. #66
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Steigs, is that question for me or for Seannie ?
    I PM'd Seannie privately and gave him my resume, but if you want to know anything about those early times may I suggest you get in touch with Cliff Saunders. I know he has been a torch carrier for the sport here for 20 years and would be only too happy to help.

  17. #67
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Steigs, is that question for me or for Seannie ?
    I PM'd Seannie privately and gave him my resume, but if you want to know anything about those early times may I suggest you get in touch with Cliff Saunders. I know he has been a torch carrier for the sport here for 20 years and would be only too happy to help.
    Sorry MIck, the question was directed at Seannie. Obviously I'm aware of your resume.
    I've actually been in contact with Cliff recently, and gotten his opinions on the current situation. Needless to say he's disapointed (to say the least), as it seems that all the years of hard work he (and you yourself) among others put into keeping Irish hockey alive are ... well, let's just say that there doesn't appear to be any further progress but rather a regression and a rapid one.

  18. #68
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    Whats going on?

    I can't believe the regression in Irish Ice Hockey. After the inaugural year it looked like we had such a good thing going. It brought me such joy to once again play the game that I loved in a country I loved, I really feel for everyone who is losing out on this opportunity. I have been away for the past couple season and will likely be away for a while longer with the economy as is, but looking from the outside it has been nothing short of a disaster. Is the interest gone? Do people still care, all the message board and sites are hardly posted on or updated. As Mick said people need to speak up and be heard that this is not acceptable for hockey in Ireland. Its your game be involved and be heard, obviously through the right mediums. I really don't know what to expect in the future, but it seems a very tenuous situation to say the least. I want nothing more than to see Ice Hockey thrive in Ireland but something has to be changed whether policies, people or structure this is not good enough clearly. I don't care if Aldolf Kim Stalin runs the show as long as the results are there.

  19. #69
    IHF Member KevinMc's Avatar
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    Ireland

    I've been to a few games and I definitely think there are a few major issues.

    1. We need each and every team to commit to full fixtures at the start of the season and everyone needs to take these fixtures seriously. The IIHA and the ice dome cannot plan and market the A league when fixtures are ALWAYS being changed. I managed to get to a fair few games towards the end of the season but they we're never what was advertised on the website etc.

    2. Once fixtures have been arranged the IIHA or the Ice Dome (or relevant NI Clubs) needs to be bounding the streets with posters etc in Dundalk, Belfast and beyond to tell people there is FREE FAMILY entertainment for all. I've spoke to people in Dundalk and other places in co Louth who still don't know there is a league being played in Dundalk and most importantly is FREE admission. Once we get bigger numbers attending the "home" team should get preference to run raffles/ intermission games to raise club funds to help players with operational costs.

    When the circus comes to town every shop window and every pole has a poster for it, the IIHL should get similar exposure, especially in sept/oct time at the start of the season.

    3. Why are we competing with the Belfast Giants?
    The IIHL A league runs on a Saturday night, which, for the most part conflicts with the Belfast Giants home games. Where possible all games but especially spartans/Junior Giants games should be scheduled for either a Friday or Sunday afternoon, or basically a night the Giants are not playing in the odyssey. I have found myself torn between the odyssey and the ice dome many times and there is a passionate and loyal ice hockey community in Belfast that are being ignored in dundalk. There is no doubt if the league was organised right a Spartans/Junior giants VS hawks/Chiefs should have a big and noisy crowd.

    4. Face off times are screwing fans from NI and Dublin!!
    Almost every time I've attended a sat night game in the ice dome I've had to leave early as the match is not over in time to get the last cross border train north. If the match was to start at 7pm then it would be over in time for the last Dundalk to Belfast train as well as the air coaches which leaves the ice dome going to Belfast and Dublin at around 9:45 pm.

    Perhaps there is sponsorship opportunity out there for the league or a club with NI Railways or the air coach company.

    I've no doubt there are still people working very hard at the IIHA and they need every ones support. If everyone takes the league seriously then we'd have a great spectacle and we'd have an organization and national team every one on the island of Ireland would want to play for.
    Last edited by KevinMc; 06-04-2010 at 18:11.

  20. #70
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    Just a quick note: Ice Hockey Players are not just Dublin/Belfast based and their clubs. I guess also to the above that thought would be in an ideal world and were in Ireland and in crazy times too. Times of games were always at most prime-times at the Dome to assist the teams and to also assist the supporters. I hope people can see the real reason for lack of interest now. Sponsors are good but you canít sell games when the whole set-up of the league was in decline with the issues of imports and donít forget you canít build up solid support if all foreign players are on these teams (most teams). Back to basics now. I think it will be 5-10 years before all will fix itself and no issues with ice officials also. Here is to the next ten years unless the worst thing happens and that the closure of an ice rink. Time will fix things hopefully.?????

  21. #71
    IHF Member KevinMc's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that all Ice hockey fans are from Belfast and Dublin, but there is NO public transport out of Dundalk going in either direction. It's stupidity that the match face off does not accommodate fans without a car or wishing to drink during the game. My point is if the match started earlier and was able to finish earlier then fans could travel on public transport from other places too.

    The Train stops at newry, portadown (change for all stops to Belfast) direct to Belfast then you get another train on the Bangor or Larne lines. Perhaps a team could offer free shirt sponsorship with NI Railways if they could run a promotion to Dundalk on game days similar to the online one they run to Dublin.... The Aircoach is the biggest missed opportunity it's Dundalk stop is the Ice Dome yet the match is not over in time to allow fans to use it, whats that about (and it serves newry and Lisburn).

    Not sure about the travel arrangements to Dublin and beyond but an earlier face off would boost travel that direction too. Dundalk is central along the Belfast-Dublin route and we're still not taking advantage of it.

    Match nights clashing with the Belfast Giants is the most ridiculous thing yet, especially for Belfast based clubs. No only are you not going to get Belfast fans traveling to Dundalk to support then but I wouldn't be surprised if you there would be a few players that would rather go watch the giants too. Maybe a few spartan players would even be giants season ticket holders etc. I know, if the game was moved to a Friday night then you probably would have issues for players getting out of work to make early faceoff, but that just adds more weight to the calls for a Sunday game like we enjoyed in the first season.

    Basically there is a knowledgeable ice hockey support that has grew in throughout the north because of the giants, and I'm sure if something was done to make them feel like this was their league too they would really get behind the Spartans or junior giants etc

    Don't get me wrong there has been a lot of people in Dundalk and its surrounding areas that are involved but they've swelled the ranks of the B league and not the spectators stand. which does inspire hope for the future but with cooperation on all sides we could get an A league that attracts fans, fun and entertainment. From there sponsorship and fund-raising could take place.

    The sorry state of the league as taken focus off the imports and the one horse race situation, but we're not in a position to apply anything like that at the minute. It's up to the teams to recruit their players but in the spirit of the development of the game here the coaches/GMs should look at creating a balanced league with appropriate amounts of Irish players. After all if they want to attract fans and sponsorship winning is half the battle getting players they can market is the other half and local is best in them stakes.

  22. #72
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    All good points and ideas but its not all down to just those as its a bit of everything and this will all have to be addressed again and again until we have a happy medium to keep it all going. This is like running a business but in this current climate I think it might be a case of the IIHA going into liquidation. It a bit like the same situation on when the Ice Bowl had 10+ teams many years ago and the exact same thing happened. Money-Imports-Destruction and look who did survive, home grown players. These are for life and with that you get a good foundation for many years to come. I think teams should have imports but too many spoil the pot. Having home grown players on your team is a true reflection of the standard of hockey in the country and until that happens you are only fooling yourself as to the real standards of hockey. You build up and in years to come it pays off. This is what IHUK had to do again. They are slowly getting it right and it shows. Yes, still many more years to develop but you now see many more home grown players on the national teams as not like before, many dual nationals.

  23. #73
    IHF Member KevinMc's Avatar
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    I agree totally that homegrown players are the future, and the junior set up in Dundonald and Dundalk at least appear to be working together to make players for the future.

    Obviously there are loads of issues for the clubs and the IIHA that need to be addressed, but my first posted was approaching the problem from the outside as a fan in the stands. When the teams and the players don't take the fixtures seriously then it's hard for the sport to be taken seriously by everyone else. So we need fixtures and we need to stick to them.

    Gaelic Football as an amature sport has survived as the Sunday game for over 125 years. We're an amature sport here too and as most people have work commitments Monday to Saturday if we also want the A league to be a spectator sport with sensible face off times and not clashing with the giants then we need to go back to a Sunday afternoon match. It worked before, I remember when the Belfast Bruins brought supporters to the First year A league matches that faced off at half 4. And we're a winter sport so it won't clash with inter county GAA. Even the elite league too, some of the English teams would prefer Sunday home games as their soccer team would be in action on the Saturday. Coventry Blaze almost always play at home on a Sunday.

    unfortunately there is a long tradition of ice hockey people here not getting on, and its mad that the Junior giants and the Spartans aren't co operating, and the ice bowl wasn't involved this season. It's mad that others aren't working together.

    IHUK is not a perfect model and year on year we have calls for the EIHL import limit to raised and lowered. For new league structures etc and we have seen many teams fall down the league divisions for financial reasons. The IIHA on the other hand is small enough and young enough to start over, get every one on the same page and get this sorted. It wont be easy but it's about getting the amature sport running in a professional mannor, once we get the house in order we can start promoting it to new and old hock fans and fun and exciting fund raising opportunities will arise which will make the clubs more viable.
    Last edited by KevinMc; 07-04-2010 at 12:27.

  24. #74
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    At last a Hockey game to report on.....
    Last night the Flyers beat the Wolves 8-3 in a real life hockey game in Dundonald Northern Ireland. Willy Fay turned up along with three other officials including Jana Gerkova, very much in keeping with the story elsewhere in these pages about our over abundance of on ice officials, and also in keeping with comments about Willy's off-ice charm offensive. (I know it would be offensive to me lol).
    Games are so rare I had no idea which thread to post this in as it has been so long since there was a game to report. I hope President @Flyers will provide more details ( despite a family emergency which meant he had to leave early - Hope all are well Will) as I could not make ethe game due to an earlier committment.

  25. #75
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Mick, you should start a new thread, as this one is about the Irish 2009-2010 season.

    Perhaps a "2012-2013 Games in Ireland" thread.

    We try and keep our threads subject specific or it just gets too chaotic.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    At last a Hockey game to report on.....
    Last night the Flyers beat the Wolves 8-3 in a real life hockey game in Dundonald Northern Ireland. Willy Fay turned up along with three other officials including Jana Gerkova, very much in keeping with the story elsewhere in these pages about our over abundance of on ice officials, and also in keeping with comments about Willy's off-ice charm offensive. (I know it would be offensive to me lol).
    Games are so rare I had no idea which thread to post this in as it has been so long since there was a game to report. I hope President @Flyers will provide more details ( despite a family emergency which meant he had to leave early - Hope all are well Will) as I could not make ethe game due to an earlier committment.
    Hi Mick,

    Many thanks for asking about my parents. Please god they will both make a full recovery. I will touch base with the lads who played to get a proper summary of last nights game. While it says Flyers won we were supported by a few players from the Wolves and other teams. Many thanks to James Sorenson for organising it with me. Thanks also to Dean Kelly for organising the ice time and officials. Looking forward to more games.

    Regards an again thanks for your concerns Mick.

    Will

  27. #77
    IHF Member Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Mick, you should start a new thread, as this one is about the Irish 2009-2010 season.

    Perhaps a "2012-2013 Games in Ireland" thread.

    We try and keep our threads subject specific or it just gets too chaotic.
    Totally understand Marc, but with games being few and far between I did not know if a new thread would be justified. I did a search and found this to be the least innapropriate. Please feel free to move this to a new thread if you prefer.

    Will glad to hear a full recovery is expected. it must have been a shock to get that news in Belfast and have to make that long trip back.
    There were some faces the Flyers VeeP did not recognize so that explains it.

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