View Poll Results: Champion & relegation poll

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  • Canada to win

    36 57.14%
  • Sweden to win

    17 26.98%
  • USA to win

    2 3.17%
  • Russia to win

    5 7.94%
  • Slovakia to win

    0 0%
  • Finland to win

    2 3.17%
  • Czech Republic to win

    0 0%
  • Latvia to win

    1 1.59%
  • Switzerland to win

    1 1.59%
  • Austria to win

    0 0%
  • Canada to relegate

    0 0%
  • Sweden to relegate

    0 0%
  • USA to relgate

    0 0%
  • Russia to relegate

    0 0%
  • Slovakia to relegate

    3 4.76%
  • Finland to relegate

    0 0%
  • Czech Republic to relegate

    5 7.94%
  • Latvia to relegate

    40 63.49%
  • Switzerland to relegate

    4 6.35%
  • Austria to relegate

    37 58.73%
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Thread: 2010 IIHF World U20 Championship in Saskatoon & Regina, Canada, 26.12.2009-5.1.2010

  1. #251
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Nightmare, if certain guys didn't want to compete in this tournament, then they should have politely declined to participate. Honestly, why suspend them from KHL or MHL play if they decline? If they don't want to be there, why would you even want them there?

    Jaaa brings up a good point, though I think it is more relevant to the US team than the Canadians. The US plays a game very reminiscent of the European style in terms of skating, puck control, and stickhandling. However, it is a hybrid game in that the US is still very physical, and still looks to drive straight to the net rather than creating chances from the perimeter and from angles. Yes, the US has learned from the Europeans to practice, practice, practice their skating and stickhandling, and that is good. But they have not abandoned their physical game in the process, and that is also good.

    There is, however, this huge misconception that Canadian hockey players do not develop their skills, and only play a dump and chase, physical game. That is a big myth. Watch the Canadian team. Watch the individual players. They are HIGHLY skilled, and they learned those skills in Canada, under the Canadian system.

    Darth, I don't see where anybody said Sweden will get crushed by the Americans. Honestly, where in the thread did anybody say that? I must have missed that. Sweden is by far the favorite in the game vs. the US. I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if the US pulls off the upset win against the Swedes and is able to crack Markstrom.

    Markstrom is easily the best goalie in the tournament; he's a star already in Elitserein, for crying out loud, despite his young age. The rest of the Swedish team plays in Elitserein or Allsvenskan, despite their young ages - they are already professional players, playing with professional men.

    The Americans, on the other hand, are all amateur players (albeit elite amateurs; the better NCAA Division I university hockey teams are as good as American ECHL or Central league minor pro, and as good as teams in such European pro leagues as Ligues Magnus or GET-Ligaen), and their goaltending - despite an outstanding game by Mike Lee last night - is nowhere close to Sweden's. The American defense is laughably poor compared to Sweden's. Only the American offense is as good or better than Sweden, and that likely will not be enough.

    I'm pleased that the US managed to gather itself and do the job against Finland, but I expect Sweden to beat them by 3 or 4 goals.

    I will of course hope for the Americans to win.

    The Canadians are the USA's biggest rival, and due to the vast majority of the Canadian public ALWAYS rooting hard against the USA, I am likewise rooting against Canada (they'd be my second favorite team if the Canadian public wasn't so anti-American when it comes to hockey) but I am forced to acknowledge their superiority year in, year out at this event. For all of those who bash the Canadian development system, and Canadian Major Junior hockey, it's interesting to see how Canada routinely beats teams of European professionals and American NCAA D.I all stars.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Hasn't that been a recurring story the past couple of years, that Russian teams can look disinterested at times?
    Now that you mention it, yes I think that's true. Thoughts on why?


    In regards to the sensationalist story by a suspect reporter looking for a little scoop, oh wait thats all I have to say haha. I think the tournament should be in Canada every year. These guys get a chance to play in front of thousands of spectators in great venues with good exposure. I say keep it there. Apart from the booing at last years final, I think most of the teams have been pleased with Canada's hospitality.

  3. #253
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andi View Post
    So now the question for the Swiss is, whether they should take their beach towels and long drinks on the ice to fill up the tanks and watch the Canadians flying by - and then throwing everything they have left at a frustated bronze medal game opponent.
    Or if they would want to show the Canadians that they can play hockey too, which might be enough for another honourable defeat, and then watching without any gas left in the tank the US or Sweden cruising to bronze ...
    Or they can give it their all and try to go for the final, worse they can end up is with a Silver.

  4. #254
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post

    There is, however, this huge misconception that Canadian hockey players do not develop their skills, and only play a dump and chase, physical game. That is a big myth. Watch the Canadian team. Watch the individual players. They are HIGHLY skilled, and they learned those skills in Canada, under the Canadian system.

    Darth, I don't see where anybody said Sweden will get crushed by the Americans. Honestly, where in the thread did anybody say that? I must have missed that. Sweden is by far the favorite in the game vs. the US. I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if the US pulls off the upset win against the Swedes and is able to crack Markstrom.

    Markstrom is easily the best goalie in the tournament; he's a star already in Elitserein, for crying out loud, despite his young age. The rest of the Swedish team plays in Elitserein or Allsvenskan, despite their young ages - they are already professional players, playing with professional men.

    The Americans, on the other hand, are all amateur players (albeit elite amateurs; the better NCAA Division I university hockey teams are as good as American ECHL or Central league minor pro, and as good as teams in such European pro leagues as Ligues Magnus or GET-Ligaen), and their goaltending - despite an outstanding game by Mike Lee last night - is nowhere close to Sweden's. The American defense is laughably poor compared to Sweden's. Only the American offense is as good or better than Sweden, and that likely will not be enough.

    I'm pleased that the US managed to gather itself and do the job against Finland, but I expect Sweden to beat them by 3 or 4 goals.

    I will of course hope for the Americans to win.

    The Canadians are the USA's biggest rival, and due to the vast majority of the Canadian public ALWAYS rooting hard against the USA, I am likewise rooting against Canada (they'd be my second favorite team if the Canadian public wasn't so anti-American when it comes to hockey) but I am forced to acknowledge their superiority year in, year out at this event. For all of those who bash the Canadian development system, and Canadian Major Junior hockey, it's interesting to see how Canada routinely beats teams of European professionals and American NCAA D.I all stars.
    Aren't you being overly rhetoric? American junior players vs European professionals? Please, give me a break.

    The vast majority of the Swedish players are on junior contracts. They earn less than US$10,000 a year, in many cases as little as US$5,000 or less, and you certainly cannot make a living from that in Sweden. Their financial situation is no doubt less stable than the well-funded American juniors in the NCAA system. Besides many of the Swedish players split time between Elitserien and farm teams in Allsvenskan or the junior teams.

    Besides, nearly everybody expect Sweden vs USA to go either way. Sweden hasn't beaten USA since 1996 and in the August Summer camps, the U.S. blue and white teams have beaten Småkronorna routinely. So who do you think you're kidding?
    Last edited by Karsten; 03-01-2010 at 21:05.

  5. #255
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otgoal21 View Post
    Now that you mention it, yes I think that's true. Thoughts on why?
    I don't know anything about the Russian hockey system and thus cannot have a proper opinion. A wild guess is perhaps some sort of emphasis on individual performances rather than team building?

    On the other hand, my perception of USA in general is that is the individualization capital of the world. And yet the american juniors always seem to play really well as a team.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsten View Post
    Aren't you being overly rhetoric? American junior players vs European professionals? Please, give me a break.

    The vast majority of the Swedish players are on junior contracts. They earn less than US$10,000 a year, in many cases as little as US$5,000 or less, and you certainly cannot make a living from that in Sweden. Their financial situation is no doubt less stable than the well-funded American juniors in the NCAA system. Besides many of the Swedish players split time between Elitserien and farm teams in Allsvenskan or the junior teams.

    Besides, nearly everybody expect Sweden vs USA to go either way. Sweden hasn't beaten USA since 1996 and in the August Summer camps, the U.S. blue and white teams have beaten Småkronorna routinely. So who do you think you're kidding?
    Um, college hockey players don't get paid, last time I heard. For that matter, the rest of the NCAA.
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  7. #257
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Bennison, prior to SWE vs RUS one of the Swedish commentors, don't know whether it was Wikegård, said that the Russian junior team is a typical 'medvindslag'. Don't know how to translate this into English, but it means that they play very well when they have momentum and really struggle when things turn against them. Psychologically the team is quite fragile if this is true.

  8. #258
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Um, college hockey players don't get paid, last time I heard. For that matter, the rest of the NCAA.
    True, not directly, but as I understand it they do make a living getting feeded and housed by the universities they are assigned + they get an education worth thousands of dollars, not to mention the higher life income this ensures. I have no issues with this, but I would call the college athletes stictly amateurs. They do after all make a living from their sport. Free housing, food and education (high school level only) is also common in Sweden, so in this sense, the two systems are in essence not much different.
    The players are neither strictly professionals, nor strictly amateurs.



    .
    Last edited by Karsten; 03-01-2010 at 21:47.

  9. #259
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    http://www.iihf.com/channels0910/wm2...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=2956&cHash=893198acc2

    Hmmmmm... reading that article, i'm thinking of sending an email packed with DarthMaul's quotes to Hockey Canada to pass on to the U20 team.

  10. #260
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    So, my thoughts on the early semifinal.

    Switzerland played hard, did everything they could, but were quite obviously exhausted from yesterday's match and just couldn't keep up.
    Canada won 6-1 but the game was a lot closer most of the way through. Conz had another great game for the Swiss.

    The hit from behind against Hamonic was UGLY.
    Fuglister should face some additional penalties, and miss the bronze match. It was brutal, and absolutely needless when down 6-1.

    I'm looking forward to the late game.
    The Americans are flying high, and personally I'm giving them a slight advantage based on their last two games, where they've played tremendous hockey against strong competition. As we've seen, the toughest Sweden faced was against Finland (a win that was arguably thanks to Markstrom's amazing goaltending) where they were outplayed but pulled out the victory. The Americans took that Finnish team and beat them into the ice.

    IMO, Sweden can still win it, but they'll need Markstrom to have the game of his life.

    For the US to take it, the entire team will have to be playing on par with how they played last night. Sweden on the other hand is more rested, and will have an advantage that way.

    All things being equal, this is how I see things stacking up, based on what I've seen from the two teams thus far in the tournament:
    Goaltending: advantage Sweden. Campbell has looked good for the USA, but Markstrom is in a class of his own.
    Defense: advantage USA. Swedish defenders are prone to giveaways, especially when pressured, and have on the whole looked nervous at the best of times. The American defenders are strong, solid and confident, and this could be much to their advantage.
    Offense: no advantage. Both teams have tremendous speed, skill and scoring touch. The Swedes are more experienced as an offensive corps, but I don't see a way to give either side an edge going into this game.

    Any way you cut it though, it'll be a close, and damned entertaining game. I hope you all get to enjoy it.

  11. #261
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    I think the US defense is awful. And I hope that Lee gets the start in net over Campbell; he's looked much stronger than him. The only place the US gets the edge (and it's a slight one) is on offense.

    Karsten - forget the money (or very little of it) that the Swedish kids get, and forget the non-monetary (but still valuable) compensation the NCAA players get by way of scholarships. My point is that the Swedish kids, from what I am told, all play in Elitserein and/or Allsvenskan. Both are pro leagues, and Elitserein is one of the world's best pro leagues - probably its third best. That gives them an advantage, since in Elitserein they face stiffer competition than the Americans in NCAA Division I. I have no idea if any of the Swedes play in Sweden's U20 league, but I was led to believe that they all play in Elitserien &/or Allsvenskan, which would give them an advantage, IMO, over the Americans. If the Swedish team played, for the most part, in the Swedish SuperElit J-20 league, then yes, I'd give the edge to the USA. But they don't.

    Of course, the Swedes also have Markstrom..........and he's NHL ready right now.

    As for the Swiss, they played really hard. That game was 1-0 for a long time, and the Swiss were within 2 goals into the third period....great effort by their boys. As for the hit from behind, Canada was playing very rough, and the Swiss refused to back down. The Swiss hit from behind was dirty, but Canada was borderline dirty with their after the whistle shoves, stick jabs, and taunts, and perhaps the Swiss players had had enough. Doesn't excuse it, but you reap what you sow.

  12. #262
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    Undoubtedly, there will be some who will be disappointed Canada didn't run the Swiss out of the building early.
    But the Canadians showed patience and for the most part executed their strategy to a T.
    Chip the puck in, and cycle the puck ad nauseum.
    It didn't make for an exciting game, but it paid off in the third period when fatigue set in.
    Apart from some penalty trouble in the second period, it was a good, workman like performance by Canada.
    The other semi should be a lot closer.
    will be interesting to see how the Swedish D handles the American's speed.

  13. #263
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    http://www.iihf.com/channels0910/wm2...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=2956&cHash=893198acc2

    Hmmmmm... reading that article, i'm thinking of sending an email packed with DarthMaul's quotes to Hockey Canada to pass on to the U20 team.
    lol I remember all those quotes, most of them and reading it.

    for them, for us.

  14. #264
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    As we've seen, the toughest Sweden faced was against Finland (a win that was arguably thanks to Markstrom's amazing goaltending) where they were outplayed but pulled out the victory.
    I saw that game from the middle of the second period, and I saw a dominant Swedish squad. I have afterwards read that Finland totally owned the first period. But to say that Sweden were outplayed in the game against Finland is unfair in my opinion.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  15. #265
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    I saw that game from the middle of the second period, and I saw a dominant Swedish squad. I have afterwards read that Finland totally owned the first period. But to say that Sweden were outplayed in the game against Finland is unfair in my opinion.
    Fair enough. The shot count, and first period (the one that I saw) would have indicated dominance. Gotta love games like that though, where the momentum can shift like that.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    I think the US defense is awful. And I hope that Lee gets the start in net over Campbell; he's looked much stronger than him. The only place the US gets the edge (and it's a slight one) is on offense.

    Karsten - forget the money (or very little of it) that the Swedish kids get, and forget the non-monetary (but still valuable) compensation the NCAA players get by way of scholarships. My point is that the Swedish kids, from what I am told, all play in Elitserein and/or Allsvenskan. Both are pro leagues, and Elitserein is one of the world's best pro leagues - probably its third best. That gives them an advantage, since in Elitserein they face stiffer competition than the Americans in NCAA Division I. I have no idea if any of the Swedes play in Sweden's U20 league, but I was led to believe that they all play in Elitserien &/or Allsvenskan, which would give them an advantage, IMO, over the Americans. If the Swedish team played, for the most part, in the Swedish SuperElit J-20 league, then yes, I'd give the edge to the USA. But they don't.

    Of course, the Swedes also have Markstrom..........and he's NHL ready right now.

    As for the Swiss, they played really hard. That game was 1-0 for a long time, and the Swiss were within 2 goals into the third period....great effort by their boys. As for the hit from behind, Canada was playing very rough, and the Swiss refused to back down. The Swiss hit from behind was dirty, but Canada was borderline dirty with their after the whistle shoves, stick jabs, and taunts, and perhaps the Swiss players had had enough. Doesn't excuse it, but you reap what you sow.
    The Swiss surpriced me once again with big passion and good play. With a little bit of luck, they have turned it into 1-1, in the middle of second period. But fully deserved Canadian win.

    And just as expected close game between Sweden and USA and Sweden lose to defensive errors. Markstrøm makes his first mistake of the tournament.

    But seen on the whold game. USA was best in 1st and 3rd period, while they were struggling in the 2nd.

    For a bit of change i cheer for the USA in the final. But unfortunately i am afraid that Canada, will be better prepared, for the American tactics this time. But the Americans looks strong and if Mike Lee can keep up the play from today, it is looking good for the Americnas.

  17. #267
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    At worst, the USA will mine silver, and will win their sixth medal ever at the WJC's. I'm very proud, and hopeful that we will strike gold!

    We've found a goaltender for the first time in several years in Mike Lee. He's been terrific.

    The offense has been lethal, and could be even better if they'd simply shoot more.

    The defense........well, I'm praying for a miracle. :)

  18. #268
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    The defense........well, I'm praying for a miracle. :)
    You only get one miracle on ice, the rest is guts.

  19. #269
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    Congrats USA! well-deserved win!!!!!!!

    But though lost for Sweden. This was our chance to get the gold. The following years teams will not be this talented as this team.

    Sweden has problem with the NA-style and the small ice. This is also why I think this tournament is a joke. IIHF should work on make this tournament popular in Europe too. Now it's ridicolous that the NA teams have the favour on home ice and small ice every year.

    Now I don't care who wins the gold medal game. I just hope hope the best team win. In the bronze medal game: GO SWEDEN!

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Congrats USA! well-deserved win!!!!!!!

    But though lost for Sweden. This was our chance to get the gold. The following years teams will not be this talented as this team.

    Sweden has problem with the NA-style and the small ice. This is also why I think this tournament is a joke. IIHF should work on make this tournament popular in Europe too. Now it's ridicolous that the NA teams have the favour on home ice and small ice every year.

    Now I don't care who wins the gold medal game. I just hope hope the best team win. In the bronze medal game: GO SWEDEN!
    Sweden didnt seem to have any problems with the ice when playing Czech Republic, Austria, Russia or Finland..

  21. #271
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Here's the thing, the IIHF never did anything to promote the tournament at all.
    The reason it's as popular in Canada as it is, is because of TSN, who got the broadcasting rights all those years ago, and basically turned it into what it is.
    Now the IIHF gets it in Canada every three years because the tournament makes so much money for the IIHF.

    If a sports network in Sweden (or any other country) wants to put the time and effort into promoting the tournament as a holiday event, I'm sure TSN would be happy to give them pointers, and the IIHF would be happy to get the tournament there regularly to help them. Problem is, nobody in Europe cares, and nobody wants to put the effort in.

    Great game by both teams, US made it happen in the end. Markstrom letting in a very surprising goal, but Sweden will amaze if they don't pull it together and get the bronze.

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by xunearthhxcx View Post
    Sweden didnt seem to have any problems with the ice when playing Czech Republic, Austria, Russia or Finland..

    No because they are also familiar to big ice... It's only NA who are familiar with small ice. Then of course the European teams haven't the advantage against Sweden as NA!

  23. #273
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    If a sports network in Sweden (or any other country) wants to put the time and effort into promoting the tournament as a holiday event,
    SVT should do more leg work, instead of sending that blonde like they all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    No because they are also familiar to big ice... It's only NA who are familiar with small ice. Then of course the European teams haven't the advantage against Sweden as NA!
    Even on European Ice Canada still wins.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Here's the thing, the IIHF never did anything to promote the tournament at all.
    The reason it's as popular in Canada as it is, is because of TSN, who got the broadcasting rights all those years ago, and basically turned it into what it is.
    Now the IIHF gets it in Canada every three years because the tournament makes so much money for the IIHF.

    If a sports network in Sweden (or any other country) wants to put the time and effort into promoting the tournament as a holiday event, I'm sure TSN would be happy to give them pointers, and the IIHF would be happy to get the tournament there regularly to help them. Problem is, nobody in Europe cares, and nobody wants to put the effort in.

    Great game by both teams, US made it happen in the end. Markstrom letting in a very surprising goal, but Sweden will amaze if they don't pull it together and get the bronze.
    It's sad when money goes before the game. It's not good for the tournament itself if same countries dominate every year... No matter if IIHF didn't do anything to promote the tourney in Canada. They should promote in Europe to make the tourney more popular. I think they should make more money then.
    just a question: was the tournament this popular in canada 1998-2004 when they didn't won?

  25. #275
    IHF Staff Trim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kun View Post
    Even on European Ice Canada still wins.
    Yep. It may have a small affect on goaltenders as puck moves in quicker from the boards, but Canada has shown that they're the best producing U20 nation. Much of that is the sheer number of eligible players they can choose from and the coaching they receive all through their youth. If Mongolia had similar numbers and coaching levels for that vast qualtity of players, they'd be a force as well.

    Its run what you brung - Hockey Canada is fortunate enough to have more than enough to select only the most elite players for their final roster unlike some Div III countries for example which rely merely on who they can bring.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

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  26. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by kun View Post


    Even on European Ice Canada still wins.
    Sure, but should they win this often?? Remember 2008??? Sweden beaten you and hardly lost in overtime. I'm pretty sure this is a better Team Sweden than 2008. But the ice size make it damn hard.

  27. #277
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    It's sad when money goes before the game. It's not good for the tournament itself if same countries dominate every year... No matter if IIHF didn't do anything to promote the tourney in Canada. They should promote in Europe to make the tourney more popular. I think they should make more money then.
    just a question: was the tournament this popular in canada 1998-2004 when they didn't won?
    You'd better believe it. Even during that time when it was hosted here they were setting attendance records.
    And money in this case is important, because the take the IIHF gets once every 3 years from hosting the tournament in Canada, is enough to fund all the lower division U20 and U18 tournaments for 3 years. If not for the WJC in Canada, there likely wouldn't be a venue for U20 and U18 players in countries like Mongolia, Chinese Taipei, Ireland, New Zealand, Israel, etc. to compete against each other because there would be no money to host a tournament with.

  28. #278
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Sure, but should they win this often?? Remember 2008??? Sweden beaten you and hardly lost in overtime. I'm pretty sure this is a better Team Sweden than 2008. But the ice size make it damn hard.
    That might be the case, but how are we to know that this isn't a better Team USA, and a better Team Canada than in 2008 as well? In fact, some pundits have been saying this is probably the best team Canada has entered in over a decade.

  29. #279
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    What Sweden has problems with is winning the games that absolutely matter the most, ie, medal round games.
    Doesn't matter whether it's on Canadian ice or European ice.
    In the early 90's, Sweden won 4 silvers in a row despite having their best ever teams with Forsberg, Markus Naslund et al.
    Canada beat them in Gavle in '92.
    You didn't see Canada complain about big ice, even though its obviously unfamiliar to them.
    The US won its only gold on European ice, too.
    The Soviets used to win tournaments here in NA...Montreal, Hamilton and Alaska...and you didn't see them complain about "small" ice, ever.
    And as Kun points out, Canada has won at least as many WJC's over in Europe as they do here.
    True champions don't moan and gripe, they just find a way to get it done.
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  30. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    That might be the case, but how are we to know that this isn't a better Team USA, and a better Team Canada than in 2008 as well? In fact, some pundits have been saying this is probably the best team Canada has entered in over a decade.
    Strange. I have heard the opposite, that this should be one of the weakest Team Canada in the latest years...
    But the point is that ice size has a big matter in the game. Then I think it's not fair to have the tourney in NA this often. This will not make the tourney more popular, I think rather opposite.

  31. #281
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    That might be the case, but how are we to know that this isn't a better Team USA, and a better Team Canada than in 2008 as well? In fact, some pundits have been saying this is probably the best team Canada has entered in over a decade.
    WHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhat!



    Not even close. Last year's team was way better and 2005 arguing one of the best, and in the 90's there were a few. Teams before it, as well. Maybe it has the best talent for it's age group that are missing in a while?

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Strange. I have heard the opposite, that this should be one of the weakest Team Canada in the latest years...
    But the point is that ice size has a big matter in the game. Then I think it's not fair to have the tourney in NA this often. This will not make the tourney more popular, I think rather opposite.

    Do you think its "fair" the World Championships are held in Europe every year?
    Two years ago, the Worlds were finally held in NA when they were in Halifax.
    Do you have any idea when the Worlds werelast held in NA before that?
    Try 1962, in Colorado Springs, Colorado of all places!
    Do the math...from 1962 to 2008...that's 46 straight years!
    I think the Worlds were in Japan a time or two but mostly the Worlds is strictly a European show.
    So excuse us Canadians for hosting the WJC's "too frequently".
    And BTW....Sweden won that 1962 tournament.

  33. #283
    IHF Member Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    No because they are also familiar to big ice... It's only NA who are familiar with small ice. Then of course the European teams haven't the advantage against Sweden as NA!
    Don't worry, the way the IIHF kisses NHL ass(though lately it was a bit limited) we'll have NA ice all over the world and get bored by all the excess physical game. This being said, Canada and the US were by far the best teams in the tournament an judging by their first game any of them might win this final, though we might have a canadian winner again, unfortunately. Good luck to both teams.
    P.S.: Hope i was not misunderstood, i think that for the European teams the fact that they play on this small ice is a bonus for the future for it helps the players become a bit more versatile, at least from my point of view.
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  34. #284
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    NHL

    MODERATOR / EDITOR'S NOTE:

    This post was nothing other than a personal attack on a fellow board member, which will not be permitted.

    You are welcome to express an opinion, and even criticize a fellow board member. You are welcome to argue with another board member.

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  35. #285
    IHF Member Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streethawk View Post
    Nightmare your hatred towards the NHL is legendary keep up the good work buddy. And by the way I am sure you would much prefer the IIHF kisse the KHL's ass but that's another story.
    We'd just prefer that IIHF would kiss no ass...
    My articles at The Hockey Writers

  36. #286
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    My take on the game yesterday:

    First period

    Sweden started out with the intention of playing it cool and calm, but ended up being too calm and not playing through. This gave USA an excellent start to the game with an early 1-0 goal. After that Sweden had a nervous period with USA snapping at every chance and Markström keeping Sweden in the game. After Sweden's first successful box play however, they dominated the game more and more, but without being able to put much pressure up close on excellent Lee in the American goal.

    Second period

    Sweden came stronger in the second period and equalized 4 minutes off a rebound. Back to back minor penalties broke the Swedish pace, but in 5-on-5 Sweden still had most of the puck possession. Half way through the period, Sweden took the lead with their second goal, again managing to get in close to the US goalkeeper. When playing 4-on-4 a couple of minutes later, USA broke away and equalized the score again.

    Third period

    Just 39 seconds into the period Swedish team captain was sent of on a major penalty after elbowing Jerry D'Amigo. Sweden managed the following 5 minute box play without too much trouble, and had a break away in the dying seconds that led to an American minor penalty, but the referee could just as easily have called a penalty shot. The ensuing power play did not result in any goals and the teams started trading chances, with Sweden not managing the same level of play as they had in the second period. A video review of a scary bounce off Markström's back half way through the period calmed things down a bit, but perhaps some nerves were rattled. USA scored on a shot from the blue line a couple of minutes later, a shot that looked like Markström should have been on top of. Sweden pressed for the equalizer during a power play but lost the puck at the blue line resulting in a short handed goal for USA instead. After that all was lost and the last goal was scored in an empty net.

    Summary

    Sweden and USA both played well, with USA able to capitalize of individual mistakes in the Swedish defence. Sweden had an uphill battle with the penalty calls, with 35 PIM against US 8, a difference that does not reflect the game. But in the end it was not the penalties that killed Sweden, it was the defensive turnovers that we have seen in the other games. This time, the US offense was strong enough to take advantage of that.
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  37. #287
    IHF Member Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
    We'd just prefer that IIHF would kiss no ass...
    Bingo! I would prefer a strong IIHF, like FIFA, for example, that sets rules and standards and doesn't give in to any other affiliate or non-affiliate organization. At the moment the IIHF is neither strong, nor wise or "fair-handed" and it all goes from it's weak head(Fasel).
    "It is hard to see a black cat in a dark room, especially when it isn't there."

  38. #288
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Just 39 seconds into the period Swedish team captain was sent of on a major penalty after elbowing Jerry D'Amigo.
    When I first saw this, I thought the penalty was for diving, as I saw no attempt to hit from the Swede at all. To me it looked as if the US player skated into the Swede. The replay showed the hit, but a five minute major still seemed excessive.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatleysucks View Post
    Do you think its "fair" the World Championships are held in Europe every year?
    Two years ago, the Worlds were finally held in NA when they were in Halifax.
    Do you have any idea when the Worlds werelast held in NA before that?
    Try 1962, in Colorado Springs, Colorado of all places!
    Do the math...from 1962 to 2008...that's 46 straight years!
    I think the Worlds were in Japan a time or two but mostly the Worlds is strictly a European show.
    So excuse us Canadians for hosting the WJC's "too frequently".
    And BTW....Sweden won that 1962 tournament.

    I think NA should host more World championships. I have no problem with this. But you can compare Canada's hosting in WJC with Europes hosting in WCH.

    Since 2000:

    WJC: Canada 4, USA 1 = 5 NA
    Sweden 2, Czech Republic 2, Finland 1, Russia 1= 6 Europe

    This means TWO NA countries have hosted almost half part of the tourneys. FOUR European countries have shared 6 tourneys.

    Is it fair that two countries have hosted more than four countries?

    WCH: Canada 1 = 1 NA
    Russia 2, Germany 2( included 2010 since I did it for WJC), Latvia 1, Sweden 1, Swizerland 1, Austria 1, Finland 1, Czech Republic 1= 10 Europe.

    In WCH we have 10 tourney's in 8 different European countries. I think USA could be awarded a tourney instead for Russia or Germany who have two tourneys in the period I'm talking about. So you think it's unfair that NA host little tournaments? But let's face it's more European countries than NA's involved. Canada has host one WCH the last decade. So also Sweden. But of course you maybe think Canada should host more tourneys than Sweden because NA must host??

    So since 2000:
    WJC: 5 NA= 2 countries
    WCH: 10 Europe= 8 countries

    Which is worst??

    Future:
    WJC 2011 and 2012: USA and Canada
    WHC 2011 and 2012: Slovakia and Sweden/Finland

    So in 2011 USA will host the WJC again but a NINTH European country will host WCH. Slovakia has never host a own tournament, not in WJC or WCH.

    So your 2 NA hockey countries hosts way more WJC than the European countries do in WCH. 2014 a new European country will host WCH, Belarus. Earlier Italy and Norway also have hosted WCH.

    Countries in the history who have hosted or will host the WJC or WCH:

    NA: Canada and USA = 2
    Europe: Belarus, Finland, Sweden, Slovakia, Germany(West Germany), Switzerland, Russia (Soviet Union), Latvia, Austria, Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia), Norway, Italy, Poland, France, Belgium, Great Britain, Yugoslavia = 17.

    2 NA against 17 Europe, do you really think it's that weird Europe host this many WCH??


    I think USA and Canada should host WCH more often. Canada hosted first time 2008 and USA hosted latest 1962. It's unfair I think. Actually I think it's sad that one of the biggest hockey superpowers not hosted the WCH before 2008. Yes I think it's unfair but still you can't compare it to WJC. It's not strange that Europe host more tourneys since we are more countries involved.

    Let's then compare Sweden WCH hostings and Canada's WJC hostings:
    Since 1974 Canada has host 10 WJC
    Since 1920 Sweden has host 9 WCH.

    So do you think you as Canadian can complain? I don't think so.

  40. #290
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    Since 1920 Canada, the birthplace of modern hockey has hosted the Worlds ONCE.
    As a previous poster pointed out, the Swiss were supposed to host this year but pulled out, and no other European country was willing to step in, ncluding Sweden.
    10 WJC over 35 years isn't a lot, even though Canada hosted 4 times in the last ten years.
    The first 25 years of this tournament, Canada hosted on average every 4-5 years.
    This is the first time Canada hosted back to back, for reasons I've already pointed out.
    Anyway, my point is...when NA play in Europe they have to adjust to big ice.
    When the Euros play in NA they have to adjust to the smaller rinks.
    The two most dominant countries, Russia and Canada have won several tournaments in both Europe and NA.
    So this complaining about playing on the smaller NA ice just doesn't cut it.
    You know what the circumstances are, just deal with it and stop whining all the time.
    Sweden has gone 30 years without gold, even though they have had ample opportunities to take it home.
    They blew a golden chance in 1992 when their best ever team lost to Canada on home ice.
    So please, spare us the endless list of excuses, complaints and gripes.

  41. #291
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
    We'd just prefer that IIHF would kiss no ass...
    I thought the IIHF stop bending over puckering up. I'm not sure what you're complaint is.
    Russian league supporters always whining about something these days. Please no old relic examples of why the NHL this and that. We're in a new era. If anything Canadians have more a right to complain about our professional league involvement situation right now, since the NHL is the league, you don't see anyone outside our country giving a damn, do you?
    Last edited by kun; 04-01-2010 at 14:26.

  42. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatleysucks View Post
    Since 1920 Canada, the birthplace of modern hockey has hosted the Worlds ONCE.
    As a previous poster pointed out, the Swiss were supposed to host this year but pulled out, and no other European country was willing to step in, ncluding Sweden.
    10 WJC over 35 years isn't a lot, even though Canada hosted 4 times in the last ten years.
    The first 25 years of this tournament, Canada hosted on average every 4-5 years.
    This is the first time Canada hosted back to back, for reasons I've already pointed out.
    Anyway, my point is...when NA play in Europe they have to adjust to big ice.
    When the Euros play in NA they have to adjust to the smaller rinks.
    The two most dominant countries, Russia and Canada have won several tournaments in both Europe and NA.
    So this complaining about playing on the smaller NA ice just doesn't cut it.
    You know what the circumstances are, just deal with it and stop whining all the time.
    Sweden has gone 30 years without gold, even though they have had ample opportunities to take it home.
    They blew a golden chance in 1992 when their best ever team lost to Canada on home ice.
    So please, spare us the endless list of excuses, complaints and gripes.
    As I said I think it's sad and very unfair that Canada hasn't host WHC before 2008. No doubt about that. 10 WJC in 35 years are very much compared to Sweden's 9 WCH in 90 years!! 9 Wch in 90 years!! That's not much!!! You just can't compare those two.
    The ice size has a important role in the game, you can't deny that. Of course Sweden has blow some opportunities but that's not mean that the ice size don't affect the game. Look how close it was 2008, but after that Sweden hasn't been really close to the gold. And the teams 2009 and 2010 was talked to be the best since early 1990 with Forsberg.

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    The hit from behind against Hamonic was UGLY.
    Fuglister should face some additional penalties, and miss the bronze match. It was brutal, and absolutely needless when down 6-1.

    I have seen only the third period :
    no matter Canada is clear stronger but they( the canadian )were clearly favourite by the refs as usually in this tournament .there was a hit from behind against Swiss n.28(Fischer ?)on score 4-1 by a canadianplayer as dangerous that's by Füglister and no penaltie.
    Every little fault by the swiss was punished with a penaltie, against canadians no penalties in the third period.It's not fair.

  44. #294
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcBrunengraber
    Karsten - forget the money (or very little of it) that the Swedish kids get, and forget the non-monetary (but still valuable) compensation the NCAA players get by way of scholarships. My point is that the Swedish kids, from what I am told, all play in Elitserein and/or Allsvenskan. Both are pro leagues, and Elitserein is one of the world's best pro leagues - probably its third best. That gives them an advantage, since in Elitserein they face stiffer competition than the Americans in NCAA Division I. I have no idea if any of the Swedes play in Sweden's U20 league, but I was led to believe that they all play in Elitserien &/or Allsvenskan, which would give them an advantage, IMO, over the Americans. If the Swedish team played, for the most part, in the Swedish SuperElit J-20 league, then yes, I'd give the edge to the USA. But they don't.
    As said, they split time between the Swedish J20, Elitserien and/or Allsvenskan. Some of them exclusively play in Elitserien, others exclusively play in J20 and others again split time between the leagues (check their stats). In this regard, there is terribly little new under the sun. It has always been so. It's the European development model, remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul
    But the point is that ice size has a big matter in the game. Then I think it's not fair to have the tourney in NA this often. This will not make the tourney more popular, I think rather opposite.
    According the studies conducted by the IIHF (based in part on interviews with the players), the rink size has very little effect. It used to matter 40-50 years ago, but not anymore. Besides, Sweden has practiced plenty in the smaller rinks so it cannot be used as an excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatleySucks
    Do you think its "fair" the World Championships are held in Europe every year?
    Two years ago, the Worlds were finally held in NA when they were in Halifax.
    Do you have any idea when the Worlds werelast held in NA before that?
    Try 1962, in Colorado Springs, Colorado of all places!
    Do the math...from 1962 to 2008...that's 46 straight years!
    Not sure what statement you're exactly trying to make. But if you believe that North America is being discriminated by the IIHF, you're wrong. Over the years, USA and Canada have had plenty of opportunities to make their bids, and they have been encouraged to make bids not only from the North American IIHF presidents (for many years the the IIHF president terms were splitted between Europa and NA) but also from European presidents such as the long presiding Bunny Ahearne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs
    Here's the thing, the IIHF never did anything to promote the tournament at all.
    The reason it's as popular in Canada as it is, is because of TSN, who got the broadcasting rights all those years ago, and basically turned it into what it is.
    Now the IIHF gets it in Canada every three years because the tournament makes so much money for the IIHF.

    If a sports network in Sweden (or any other country) wants to put the time and effort into promoting the tournament as a holiday event, I'm sure TSN would be happy to give them pointers, and the IIHF would be happy to get the tournament there regularly to help them. Problem is, nobody in Europe cares, and nobody wants to put the effort in.
    In truth, the IIHF does very little to promote any tournament.

    And no matter how much marketing money is spend on promoting the U20s, the tournament will never become popular in Europe. There are various reasons for this, but one the most important is that junior hockey has a much lower status in Europe where the fans can follow the most talented players in the best senior league.

    But you're absolutely right that Hockeycanada and IIHF earns a lot of money when the U20 is held in Canada. The Euro feds barely earn anything when the U20 is held in Europe. Hence, their lack of interest. The IIHF has proposed that the U20 be held in Canada every year, but hockeycanada has said no thanks. I'm with IIHF on this issue. I think the tournament should take place in Canada every year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare
    Don't worry, the way the IIHF kisses NHL ass(though lately it was a bit limited) we'll have NA ice all over the world and get bored by all the excess physical game.
    The IIHF is certainly not kissing the NHL anywhere on this issue. The IIHF is just following a world wide trend towards smaller rinks. Even the KHL decided (after some controversy) to reduce the rink size, remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by kun
    I thought the IIHF stop bending over puckering up. I'm not sure what you're complaint is.
    Russian league supporters always whining about something these days. Please no old relic examples of why the NHL this and that. We're in a new era. If anything Canadians have more a right to complain about our professional league involvement situation right now, since the NHL is the league, you don't see anyone outside our country giving a damn, do you?
    Okay, kun, what is it exactly that makes you believe that the NHL's attitudes and behavior vis-a-vis Europe has completely changed? For instance, how much has NHL offered Sweden (negotiations took place only a few months ago) for a super prospect like Markström? Is the compensation offered any different from what was paid for the 'old relic' examples like Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and Malkin? If you provide the evidence, I would be willing to discuss this.

    Don't think that Russian league supports whines more than anybody else. But in Russia, there is a sentiment that the IIHF sides with the NHL and discriminate against the KHL. The relations between the IIHF and KHL has turned from tempered to cold since last Summer.

    It's a complicated issue and the Russians are neither perfectly right or wrong. First, for 10 years Rene Fasel worked for better relationships between the NHL and Europe and he went to great lengths accommodating the NHL's demands while ignoring the tensions that build up in Europe. It was a difficult act and I'm glad that I'm not wearing his shoes, but there's little doubt that he overplayed his already weak cards. Now he has become a lame duck that needs to be replaced a.s.a.p. What has caused most bad blood lately is the IIHF's tightening of the transfer rules (adopted May 2009). In the war between the NHL and KHL, these new rules works completely to the detrimental of the KHL as the NHL cannot be sanctioned by the IIHF. The KHL would have preferred that the KHL and NHL had worked out the issues in separate negotiations.

    As I have repeatedly stated, I believe its only a matter of time before the KHL becomes completely independent of the FHR and thus the IIHF. And if the EHL sees the day of light, this league too will be independent of the IIHF. From then on, in 10 years time, the IIHF will be reduced to a body that at best only organizes IIHF tournaments on occasional basis (every second or fouth year) and perhaps only for lower level countries that are not part of the NHL, KHL, and EHL. Then you will have your new era.

  45. #295
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Well the NHL isn't going to back down from it's 'omni-potent' position if people come barking up it's tree accusing it of past travesties. I though there was a point that the KHL was preaching about an olive branch approach, but when the Radulov problem went through, everything went astray. We would have a agreement by now, but it seems both sides still have an issue.

    When the Radulov problem escalated, this perched NHL league owners and officials. I already knew then that the KHL and no one were going to win from this. If the KHL wants to get in talks with the NHL, it will have to coddle them, not force them. Look at what happened to Basiles' deals, the NHL will go forway. I dont' like the NHL, but this is just the way they operate. Excuse my language, but you have to 'stroke their balls' to get them to comply even remotely. If everyone else wants to play hardball like the NHL, don't expect any favours in return, so if this continues the 'old relic' examples, that's going to happen.

    I'm glad you agree with me that the IIHF is not kissing anyone's behind, as for getting into a debate with you about attitudes towards the NHL, I would but the last time I was about to, or would have, my message and your message was deleted by the mods, so I don't see the point in trying to.

    On point about KHL reducing their rink size, I think everyone in the KHL has every right to be uptight about it. The ice surface is what separates Canadian and Russian hockey and that's the beauty of the game. I really wish the KHL would stop trying to mimic North American things or try to be so much like our leagues, and ignore their past traditions. They're re-inventing themselves too fast. It's like forcing a chant down people's throats.
    Last edited by kun; 04-01-2010 at 17:01.

  46. #296
    IHF Member Karsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kun View Post
    Well the NHL isn't going to back down from it's 'omni-potent' position if people come barking up it's tree accusing it of past travesties. I though there was a point that the KHL was preaching about an olive branch approach, but when the Radulov problem went through, everything went astray. We would have a agreement by now, but it seems both sides still have an issue.

    When the Radulov problem escalated, this perched NHL league owners and officials. I already knew then that the KHL and no one were going to win from this. If the KHL wants to get in talks with the NHL, it will have to coddle them, not force them. Look at what happened to Basiles' deals, the NHL will go forway. I dont' like the NHL, but this is just the way they operate. Excuse my language, but you have to 'stroke their balls' to get them to comply even remotely. If everyone else wants to play hardball like the NHL, don't expect any favours in return, so if this continues the 'old relic' examples, that's going to happen.

    I'm glad you agree with me that the IIHF is not kissing anyone's behind, as for getting into a debate with you about attitudes towards the NHL, I would but the last time I was about to, or would have, my message and your message was deleted by the mods, so I don't see the point in trying to.

    On point about KHL reducing their rink size, I think everyone in the KHL has every right to be uptight about it. The ice surface is what separates Canadian and Russian hockey and that's the beauty of the game. I really wish the KHL would stop trying to mimic North American things or try to be so much like our leagues, and ignore their past traditions. They're re-inventing themselves too fast. It's like forcing a chant down people's throats.

    I see no evidence in this reply that the NHL's attitudes and behavior has changed. As for the events in the Summer of 2008, I think that you are missing the context. As I recall it--we have actually been through this before--the KHL's signing of Radulov was a tit-for-tat response to the NHL's signing of Russian players which the KHL claimed were under contract. Second, the NHL was only interested in forging a deal on respecting mutual contracts (allegedly to stop the KHL hording NHL players). The thorny issues incl. transfer compensation and deadline for signing European players were to be negotiated at a later unspecified date and when the NHL finally submitted its proposal (in 2009), there were no real changes, causing the European association to turn down a deal again.
    So you see, kun, as I see it the issues are still very hot and very little has changed since Kovalchuk/Malkin/Ovechkin, the cases that most hockey fans remember.

    P.S. Look for a PM
    Last edited by Karsten; 04-01-2010 at 17:42.

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    It's sad when money goes before the game. It's not good for the tournament itself if same countries dominate every year... No matter if IIHF didn't do anything to promote the tourney in Canada. They should promote in Europe to make the tourney more popular. I think they should make more money then.
    just a question: was the tournament this popular in canada 1998-2004 when they didn't won?
    Damn right is was popular then!! Bottom line is Canada LOVES hockey. If I am not mistaken, one of the hightest rated TV gold medal matches was in 2003 when Russia defeated Canada in Halifax.

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by kun View Post
    On point about KHL reducing their rink size, I think everyone in the KHL has every right to be uptight about it. The ice surface is what separates Canadian and Russian hockey and that's the beauty of the game.
    I agree with this point too... A lot more voices are heard these days that Swedish hockey should switch to NHL sized rinks, but I am not attracted to the type of play that size rink promotes.
    Cum bibam cervisiam gaudeo.

  49. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Congrats USA! well-deserved win!!!!!!!

    But though lost for Sweden. This was our chance to get the gold. The following years teams will not be this talented as this team.

    Sweden has problem with the NA-style and the small ice. This is also why I think this tournament is a joke. IIHF should work on make this tournament popular in Europe too. Now it's ridicolous that the NA teams have the favour on home ice and small ice every year.

    Now I don't care who wins the gold medal game. I just hope hope the best team win. In the bronze medal game: GO SWEDEN!
    so now the tourney is a "joke"? If it's so unimportant, I am surprised by the number of posts you have on this thread for something you don't care about.

  50. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ref72 View Post
    Damn right is was popular then!! Bottom line is Canada LOVES hockey. If I am not mistaken, one of the hightest rated TV gold medal matches was in 2003 when Russia defeated Canada in Halifax.
    As long as I know the popularity of the WJC in Canada dates back to the 1987 tournament and the punch-up in Piešťany.....
    25th of June 2015 - Worst day in the history of modern hockey in Slovakia

    See you in 2019...perhaps...

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