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Thread: Why is women hockey allowed to be in Olympics?

  1. #101
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    Today, the swedish tabloid Aftonbladet reports that women hockey can be removed from Olympics becaue of the lopsided results. The discussion seems to be there.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...icle6613568.ab

  2. #102
    IHF Staff Starkovs's Avatar
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    I can understand why so many people want Women hockey out of the Olympics atleast till other countries can close the large gaps. My guess is, if it finishes Canada-US for Gold, Finland-Sweden for Bronze the IOC will see what happens in the World Championships and if nothing changes pull it for Sochi.

    I do however find the non-powerhouse countries matches very fun to watch. I love the Sweden games so far and the Russia-Finland match. I cant even watch the Canada and US games, it is just too brutal.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinamoRigaFan View Post
    I can understand why so many people want Women hockey out of the Olympics atleast till other countries can close the large gaps. My guess is, if it finishes Canada-US for Gold, Finland-Sweden for Bronze the IOC will see what happens in the World Championships and if nothing changes pull it for Sochi.

    I do however find the non-powerhouse countries matches very fun to watch. I love the Sweden games so far and the Russia-Finland match. I cant even watch the Canada and US games, it is just too brutal.
    For the first half of the blowout games, I enjoy watching the effort put in by the underdogs. Sure, they'll lose by a dozen goals but they'll play hard like its still a tie. Unfortauntely, in the second half of the match the fatigue sets in a little but you're going to have that when chasing around in your own zone as the score starts to get out of hand.

    Gillian Apps said that despite the 10-1 score against Switzerland yesterday, they had to work hard. Haeflinger, Meier, and Julia Marty were especially sharp and Florence Schelling put up a stellar effort in goal. It was only 2-0 after the first and only a few defensive breakdowns shifted the score upwards as seen in Agosta and Poulin's goals. For those of you who haven't seen the Poulin goal, go find it. Its a thing of beauty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs
    I'm sorry... have you seen some of those players once the equipment comes off? Gorgeous ladies. Prettier than the tennis players IMO.
    Then again, you don't see it DURING the competition, so you make a good point; sex sells.
    I know; my home rink has two women's teams. If the tennis players were wearing pads, nobody would care and Anna Kournikova wouldn't have found fame.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Today, the swedish tabloid Aftonbladet reports that women hockey can be removed from Olympics becaue of the lopsided results. The discussion seems to be there.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...icle6613568.ab
    They will NOT remove women's hockey from the Olympics since that will be viewed as discrimination against women and you need to be fair to both genders.


  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Today, the swedish tabloid Aftonbladet reports that women hockey can be removed from Olympics becaue of the lopsided results. The discussion seems to be there.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...icle6613568.ab
    You know, there was that talk a couple days ago here in Canada too.
    Then you know what stat they put up on the tv screen last night?

    Year Champion GP GF GA
    1920 Canada 3 29 1
    1924 Canada 5 132 3
    1928 Canada 3 38 0
    1932 Canada 6 32 4


    And believe me, the Olympic committee was stricter back then.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHockeyRULEZ View Post
    They will NOT remove women's hockey from the Olympics since that will be viewed as discrimination against women and you need to be fair to both genders.

    Personally, I think this all issue about political correctness towards anyone went too far. Sexes are not 100% equal, otherwise we would have had no separate competitions for men and women in sports. Does anyone here seriously mean that men should compete in artistic gymnastics or synchronised swimming?

    Is gymnastic discriminatory towards men and/or women for not having the exact same events on the competitions? Should women play with the "best of five" system on the Grand Slam Tennis tournaments?

    If one looks for the discrimination, take a look at chess. Why are men and women still separated in chess competitions? Does it mean that either men or women can't think good enough to participate in the mixed competition?

  7. #107
    IHF Member RiaRiaHungaria's Avatar
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    I hope I'm not out of line here with this but I think honestly that most of who's arguing that women's hockey shouldn't be at the Oly due to lopsided scores - especially considering the rampages Canada went on in the early games - simply has an issue with *women* playing hockey.

    The key here is NOT about competitiveness amongst many teams, that's not a criteria for inclusion. The criteria is, how *widespread* is the sport, how many countries play it? And on that front, women's hockey is doing very well.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laho View Post
    Men could still play ice hockey even if there wasn't a women's competition I figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by DinamoRigaFan View Post
    I can understand why so many people want Women hockey out of the Olympics atleast till other countries can close the large gaps. My guess is, if it finishes Canada-US for Gold, Finland-Sweden for Bronze the IOC will see what happens in the World Championships and if nothing changes pull it for Sochi.
    I disagree with both of these. The reasons in this thread are only valid for not introducing women's hockey to the Olympics but that is not the same as removing an existing event from the Olympics.

    Quite simply, the IOC could not be seen to remove sexual equality at a time when they have made a very explicit statement that they are out to achieve it. Other sports, where the women's game lags behind the men's, are being asked to improve their sexual equality so that the balance can be addressed within the Olympics.

    Will the IOC be brave enough to throw them out if they don't achieve that? I think that changes from sport to sport. I think there will always be an argument for boxing to be men-only because the female version of the sport is not palatable to most people. However, I think that fringe sports in the summer Games will find themselves more likely to be dropped as more and more sports fight to be introduced that can make a sexual equality statement.

    A lot of the Winter Olympics events have a certain level of safety because there are far fewer events in the games and relatively fewer trying to get in. But, considering part of the IOC's motivation is a fear of lawsuit, I'm still not sure how much patience will be shown to a sport that shows no attempt to achieve equality.

    Therefore, I go back to my position that the only two options for the IOC are either the women's game stays in or that ice hockey disappears as a sport. And ice hockey is never going to disappear from the Winter Olympics...

    Graham.
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  9. #109
    IHF Member wachoo's Avatar
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    @Darthmaul : What does it change if you remove women hockey ? The ice rink is available. So, why harp to remove women's hockey ?

    If I believe wikipedia (on Bandy game) :
    "Finland won the 2004 world championship in Västerås. All other championships have been won by the Soviet Union, Russia, or Sweden."

    So only two teams can win the gold medal (Russia or Sweden).

    Don't you think that is really better than women's hockey ?
    I love hockey and hockey love me :-)

  10. #110
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Also, the international federation for bandy has only 27 members. Even if they all competed, and in 2009 only 13 did, that is not enough. By comparison, ski jumping has 109 members.

    Graham.
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  11. #111
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    [sarcasm]
    My God! Canada leading Norway by 7 goals and the game still has 7 minutes to play. What horribly one-sided hockey. Men's hockey should not be allowed in the Olympics, it's too unbalanced!
    [/sarcasm]






    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    [sarcasm]
    My God! Canada leading Norway by 7 goals and the game still has 7 minutes to play. What horribly one-sided hockey. Men's hockey should not be allowed in the Olympics, it's too unbalanced!
    [/sarcasm]
    I must agree with Steigs again. I want to see darts instead ice hockey in Sochi.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Pablo Ramirez View Post
    I must agree with Steigs again. I want to see darts instead ice hockey in Sochi.
    Darts are a summer game! Its time to get rid of ice hockey with its blowouts and put in mixed curling.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trim View Post
    Darts are a summer game! Its time to get rid of ice hockey with its blowouts and put in mixed curling.
    The new event could be darts biathlon. Makes just about as much sense as the current biathlon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    [sarcasm]
    My God! Canada leading Norway by 7 goals and the game still has 7 minutes to play. What horribly one-sided hockey. Men's hockey should not be allowed in the Olympics, it's too unbalanced!
    [/sarcasm]






    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
    ........ I had the same feeling, when the US boys shot the thirt goals yesterday..... Out with the USA, Canada and Russia. They're to good.... for SWI...
    Cheers, Franco

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shardik View Post
    The new event could be darts biathlon. Makes just about as much sense as the current biathlon
    Actually, the current biathlon makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.

    Heavy cardio to get the heart rate up high, followed by shooting, which requires you to be very calm and in full control of your breathing and body.
    In a way, biathlon is a very military sport. It mimicks the physical stress of combat.

    In short, great sport.

  17. #117
    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    Sure.

    It is still delightfully random, like chess-boxing.
    "Lord Baelish, what you suggest is treason."
    "Only if we lose."

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaRiaHungaria View Post
    I hope I'm not out of line here with this but I think honestly that most of who's arguing that women's hockey shouldn't be at the Oly due to lopsided scores - especially considering the rampages Canada went on in the early games - simply has an issue with *women* playing hockey.

    The key here is NOT about competitiveness amongst many teams, that's not a criteria for inclusion. The criteria is, how *widespread* is the sport, how many countries play it? And on that front, women's hockey is doing very well.
    RIGHT ON MY FRIEND!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by wachoo View Post
    @Darthmaul : What does it change if you remove women hockey ? The ice rink is available. So, why harp to remove women's hockey ?

    If I believe wikipedia (on Bandy game) :
    "Finland won the 2004 world championship in Västerås. All other championships have been won by the Soviet Union, Russia, or Sweden."

    So only two teams can win the gold medal (Russia or Sweden).

    Don't you think that is really better than women's hockey ?
    No, I don't think it's better than women's hockey. But women's hockey is allowed in Olympics then why not Bandy? Because USA isn't good in bandy?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaRiaHungaria View Post
    I hope I'm not out of line here with this but I think honestly that most of who's arguing that women's hockey shouldn't be at the Oly due to lopsided scores - especially considering the rampages Canada went on in the early games - simply has an issue with *women* playing hockey.

    The key here is NOT about competitiveness amongst many teams, that's not a criteria for inclusion. The criteria is, how *widespread* is the sport, how many countries play it? And on that front, women's hockey is doing very well.

    It IS about competitiveness. That's why IOC don't want sumo. Japan dominate too much they think. But is it okay for Canada and USA to dominate?? PATHETIC!

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    Ha ha ha ha ha!! Women's hockey is just pathetic. Canada 5-0 Sweden after the first period. OMG, this is so EXCITING!!! OMG, omg who will win???

    Can anybody remind me which place Sweden finsihed in Torino? At the last place? I don't remember. Looooool!!! What a great event when the silver medallist got dominated!!!

    Why not skip this pathetic tournament and just play the gold medal game between Canada and USA??? This is waste of money and time!!

    Sad just sad!! I want bandy and floorball over this crap.

  22. #122
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    See, Darth, I'm watching these games, and eagerly awaiting to see who will play for the bronze. Because the competition for that will be interesting.

    And, I will make you a bet right now: in either 2018 or 2022, China will win the gold medal.

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    Hey, if China only loses by one goal despite being outshot by over 38, then there's a future for them. And also, it gives female hockey players the chance to represent their countries. Yeah, the results might be lopsided, but the pride of wearing your national team jersey is priceless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaRiaHungaria View Post
    See, Darth, I'm watching these games, and eagerly awaiting to see who will play for the bronze. Because the competition for that will be interesting.

    And, I will make you a bet right now: in either 2018 or 2022, China will win the gold medal.
    But two teams shouldn't be secured for the gold medal game. That's not fair! What right has Canada and USA to have this event in Olympics when Sweden and Russia want Bandy?? UNFAIR!!!
    A exciting tournament should not be about the bronze. It's should be about the GOLD!

    OUT WITH WOMEN HOCKEY!

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    But two teams shouldn't be secured for the gold medal game. That's not fair! What right has Canada and USA to have this event in Olympics when Sweden and Russia want Bandy?? UNFAIR!!!

    OUT WITH WOMEN HOCKEY!
    Uh, the US lost in Torino in 2006. That's proof that they're far from guaranteed for the gold medal game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Uh, the US lost in Torino in 2006. That's proof that they're far from guaranteed for the gold medal game.

    But please that was lucky for Sweden. Look now Sweden is down 0-12 against Canada after 2 periods. Is it exciting?? Do you really think Sweden will be in gold medal game again?? The excuses to defend women hockey are being worser and worser. Accet that, women's hockey don't belong in Olympics.

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    To you who talking about Sweden's silver 2006. Today's result show that's what very, very lucky for Sweden and Sweden haven't come closer Canada and USA at all. Also look at the results in in the latest WCH. You must accept that Sweden, Finland and the rest of the teams ARE'T EVEN CLOSE TO Canada and USA.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    But please that was lucky for Sweden. Look now Sweden is down 0-12 against Canada after 2 periods. Is it exciting?? Do you really think Sweden will be in gold medal game again?? The excuses to defend women hockey are being worser and worser. Accet that, women's hockey don't belong in Olympics.
    Still though, you have female players who have something to aspire to. Their national teams might draw more players of all ages to pick up hockey, just cause they see them at the Olympics, which is the highest level of competition of women's hockey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conesy View Post
    Still though, you have female players who have something to aspire to. Their national teams might draw more players of all ages to pick up hockey, just cause they see them at the Olympics, which is the highest level of competition of women's hockey.

    Well Sweden is a top nation in both bandy and floorball and these events aren't Olympic sports. So what's your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaRiaHungaria View Post
    See, Darth, I'm watching these games, and eagerly awaiting to see who will play for the bronze. Because the competition for that will be interesting.

    And, I will make you a bet right now: in either 2018 or 2022, China will win the gold medal.
    How do you figure? It would be nice to see another contender emerge from somewhere and enliven the competition, but China aren't even as good as they were in 1998. Although they are a bit better than around 2006, when they didn't qualify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutbar View Post
    How do you figure? It would be nice to see another contender emerge from somewhere and enliven the competition, but China aren't even as good as they were in 1998. Although they are a bit better than around 2006, when they didn't qualify.
    In my opinion, there was a financial problem with ice hockey development in China between 2000 - 2006 because of big money investments to Peking 2008. Quality of chinese ice hockey will grow up now (about two years ago, some people from China were in Trencin to learn how to work with young players).

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Well Sweden is a top nation in both bandy and floorball and these events aren't Olympic sports. So what's your point?
    The international bandy federation has 25 members.

    The IIHF had last year 38 teams interested in participating in the world women's championship.

    I doubt that you'll see bandy until those two numbers get at the least significantly closer.

    As for floorball, we've already gone over the reasons why it will have more trouble getting into the summer games. There's no need to revisit that. And I've already stated that I have no issue with adding it.


    As for your arguments, they are becoming circular and repetitive.
    Perhaps you should take them to the IOC and see what kind of response your demands get there.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    No, I don't think it's better than women's hockey. But women's hockey is allowed in Olympics then why not Bandy? Because USA isn't good in bandy?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    It IS about competitiveness. That's why IOC don't want sumo. Japan dominate too much they think. But is it okay for Canada and USA to dominate?? PATHETIC!
    How about you actually do the other people on this forum the courtesy of reading their responses because you are just trotting out the same arguments that have already been answered. It has been explained numerous times why women’s hockey is in and bandy isn’t. Because women’s hockey is relatively widespread (more so than bandy), women’s hockey is relatively competitive (about as competitive as bandy although I don’t follow bandy) and also the presence of men’s hockey means that the IOC feels obliged for gender equality reasons to include women’s hockey if it is both reasonably competitive and widespread (which is why some sports only have mens). I should also point out since you haven’t seemed to pick up on it, it’s a combination of all three of those factors, not just one.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Ha ha ha ha ha!! Women's hockey is just pathetic. Canada 5-0 Sweden after the first period. OMG, this is so EXCITING!!! OMG, omg who will win???

    Can anybody remind me which place Sweden finsihed in Torino? At the last place? I don't remember. Looooool!!! What a great event when the silver medallist got dominated!!!

    Why not skip this pathetic tournament and just play the gold medal game between Canada and USA??? This is waste of money and time!!

    Sad just sad!! I want bandy and floorball over this crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    But please that was lucky for Sweden. Look now Sweden is down 0-12 against Canada after 2 periods. Is it exciting?? Do you really think Sweden will be in gold medal game again?? The excuses to defend women hockey are being worser and worser. Accet that, women's hockey don't belong in Olympics.
    I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you that women’s hockey isn’t the most balanced event in the world. It is quite obviously the case of Canada, USA, daylight then Sweden, Finland and the Swiss. But the simple fact is Sweden (not if they play as terrible as they did today) and Finland are still capable of the occasional upset as Sweden showed in Torino and 2009 (4 Nations) and Finland did in 2008. And again, its already been pointed out that imbalances like these are always present in sports when they are first introduced. Give it a few years and the gap will close and hopefully we will be able to see a good all round competition at the Olympics in 2014 and most definitely 2018. But dumping the sport now would only stunt its growth (governments have a history of investing more heavily in Olympic sports) and I think they would be a tragedy.

    As for the Canada-Sweden drubbing today. That was completely embarrassing and I put it down to two reasons. First is the Sweden has taken a step or two back in the last few years since Torino, so despite being reigning silver medalists they are probably the 4th best team in the competition at the moment. Second, they played like bums, if they had played as well as they are capable of (even with Canada playing so well) I wouldn’t have expected a goal difference of more than 5-6.

    Finally, I’d love to see bandy played as an Olympic sport in Sochi. I’ve only ever seen one game but it looks like a very entertaining sport. However, I don’t expect to see floorball included in the Olympics until dodgeball and British Bulldogs are also included.
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  34. #134
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Here's a question.

    Why do we keep asking this same question every Olympics in a fledgling sport that only recently by Olympics standards was put in the games?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Ha ha ha ha ha!! Women's hockey is just pathetic. Canada 5-0 Sweden after the first period. OMG, this is so EXCITING!!! OMG, omg who will win???

    Can anybody remind me which place Sweden finsihed in Torino? At the last place? I don't remember. Looooool!!! What a great event when the silver medallist got dominated!!!

    Why not skip this pathetic tournament and just play the gold medal game between Canada and USA??? This is waste of money and time!!

    Sad just sad!! I want bandy and floorball over this crap.
    What about men's hockey from 1920-1992? Only 3 nations won two gold medals or more (Soviet Union, Canada, and United States). If we live in 1920-1992, would you want men's hockey out of the Olympics?

    what about women's football and basketball? United States winning a gold medal in the Olympics or World Championships is very likely. Do you want to take out these sports from the Olympics as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Well Sweden is a top nation in both bandy and floorball and these events aren't Olympic sports. So what's your point?
    because Sweden got a 99.9999999999999999999999999999% chance to win a gold medal, is that why?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    To you who talking about Sweden's silver 2006. Today's result show that's what very, very lucky for Sweden and Sweden haven't come closer Canada and USA at all. Also look at the results in in the latest WCH. You must accept that Sweden, Finland and the rest of the teams ARE'T EVEN CLOSE TO Canada and USA.
    You don't remember that Sweden actually defeated Canada once?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    But please that was lucky for Sweden. Look now Sweden is down 0-12 against Canada after 2 periods. Is it exciting?? Do you really think Sweden will be in gold medal game again?? The excuses to defend women hockey are being worser and worser. Accet that, women's hockey don't belong in Olympics.
    hey you're from Sweden, you should be neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    But two teams shouldn't be secured for the gold medal game. That's not fair! What right has Canada and USA to have this event in Olympics when Sweden and Russia want Bandy?? UNFAIR!!!
    A exciting tournament should not be about the bronze. It's should be about the GOLD!

    OUT WITH WOMEN HOCKEY!
    Men's hockey from 1920-1992: only 3 nations won 2 gold medals or more

    Soviet Union
    Canada
    United States

    was that called fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    No, I don't think it's better than women's hockey. But women's hockey is allowed in Olympics then why not Bandy? Because USA isn't good in bandy?
    because bandy has less demand than hockey
    Last edited by Steigs; 18-02-2010 at 15:15.

  36. #136
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    Darth, it's very simple: nobody's forcing you to watch it if you don't like it, so don't watch it, and quit whinging about it just because you don't like the idea of women playing hockey, or whatever your issue is. I'm still not entirely clear on that matter, after 100+ posts in this thread...

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    No, I don't think it's better than women's hockey. But women's hockey is allowed in Olympics then why not Bandy? Because USA isn't good in bandy?
    The last 5 Bandy World Championships have seen a Sweden v Russia final. In each of those 5 tournaments, the Finns got bronze. Since 2001, Sweden have not missed a final, Russia have not been outside the medals and Finland have only twice missed out on the medals. Over those 9 tournaments, only 4 teams have won a medal.

    In the 2009 tournament, there were scores of 19-2, 14-2, 12-1, 13-2, 15-3, 13-3 and 15-3 in the first round of the elite group. In the semi-finals, bronze and gold games, only one game was decided by less than 5 goals.

    I would say that that shows that bandy is actually less competitive than women's ice hockey as a greater percentage of games are blow-outs and the blow-outs go deeper into the competition.

    There are then the arguments where women's ice hockey is stronger than bandy:

    • The venues already exist for hockey. Bandy would require two new venues to be built which could not be used for any other sport.
    • There is already a men's version of hockey. Sexual equality is now very important to the IOC. I strongly believe that any new sport trying to get into the Olympics would have to show that it could quickly get sexual equality. But, the women's Bandy World Championships only has 6 teams this year and has only been running for around 6 years.
    • Bandy is not played by as many nations. Other sports with governing bodies of far greater numbers of members have been told that they aren't popular enough for inclusion. Bandy needs to show that it has a presence outside of its traditional 4 countries, first.
    • The stability of bandy is seriously in doubt. The 2010 World Championships were cancelled with 6 months to go to the tournament start because they couldn't guarantee the 2nd tier teams would play. It only got a very late reprieve.


    I would also question how many sports have a large number of events where the competition runs deep. Middle- and long-distance running in athletics are dominated by Kenya and Ethopia. Swimming is largely dominated by the US and Australia. Track cycling was dominated by the UK in Beijing. There are a very small number of teams that ever stand a chance of winning Olympic gold for field hockey

    I genuinely don't see why women's ice hockey is any different to the above with one exception. In a very offensive game, one-sided matches have one-sided scores. Winning a 5000m race by 5 seconds is huge, but doesn't look it. Winning a field hockey game 5-0, as the Dutch did against South Africa in Beijing, is a massive defeat. But it appears less so because it is a sport where fewer goals are typically scored.

    And I don't see that as a reason to particularly punish ice hockey. After all, are we going to punish basketball because Australia beat Iran 106-68 in Beijing? In 1992, the Americans hammered the Croatians 117-85 in the final. Are we really saying that basketball should have been removed from the 1996 games?

    Graham.
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  38. #138
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    I love when Graham posts seriously. His reads are so informative. Now I know more about bandy.

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    Actually Finland has won bandy wch one time. When has a another country than USA and Canada won wch in women hockey?? Never right??

    And what's the problem with do a new venue for bandy? What's the problem with doing a rink that you will never use again? If Sweden will host olympics in the future then we must do new venue for luge and skeleton. These are event that Sweden has NO tradition in and we won't use these buildings again. Why can't other countries do the same for bandy? Almost all hosts need to build buildings which will not be used after the games. This is a another lames excuse against bandy. Look Canadians even don't want to spend money to make the icehockey rinks to international sizes. It's rather pathetic.

  40. #140
    IHF Member Oz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Actually Finland has won bandy wch one time. When has a another country than USA and Canada won wch in women hockey?? Never right??
    Sweden's Torino hockey victory is one huge fluke, but finnish only triumph in bandy is good enough argument to support your case, that bandy is such a competative sport.

  41. #141
    IHF Staff Graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Actually Finland has won bandy wch one time.
    With respect, I don't think that changes the argument that bandy is only about 4 countries, within which there is still a very clear hierarchy.

    My point was that bandy is no more competitive for medals and is even less competitive further down the hierarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    And what's the problem with do a new venue for bandy? What's the problem with doing a rink that you will never use again? If Sweden will host olympics in the future then we must do new venue for luge and skeleton. These are event that Sweden has NO tradition in and we won't use these buildings again. Why can't other countries do the same for bandy? Almost all hosts need to build buildings which will not be used after the games. This is a another lames excuse against bandy. Look Canadians even don't want to spend money to make the icehockey rinks to international sizes. It's rather pathetic.
    The argument was not about bandy against skeleton or luge. The argument was bandy against women's hockey. Women's hockey does not need a new venue because it co-exists with men's hockey. Bandy can't co-exist with any other sport. While it could possibly share with long-track speed skating, the large number of games required would make that logistically impossible.

    Also, I don't agree with your argument about building venues with no future use on two counts.

    First, the other sports have a far larger global footprint than bandy. It is easier to use a skeleton/luge track in a non-traditional country by hosting new events (e.g. World Cup, World Championships, etc.) that grows the sport in that country than having a venue for a sport that the world doesn't care about. The velodrome in Manchester, built as part of a failed bid for the 1996 Olympics, is a great example of this. The UK had little history in this sport, but the domination of our team in Beijing could be traced back to the building of this facility. Track cycling was a big event, so we could make more out of it to base our own development upon.

    Second, the IOC have clearly stated that all future games must have a legacy. London 2012 have been instructed that this is non-negotiable. That's why the Olympic Arena is being designed to allow a down-sizing to make it more useable afterwards. The IOC will no longer accept bids that have venues that are either demolished after the Games or left empty.

    Graham.
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  42. #142
    IHF Member RiaRiaHungaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Look Canadians even don't want to spend money to make the icehockey rinks to international sizes. It's rather pathetic.
    You're trying too hard, and failing for all that.

    It wasn't about not wanting to spend the money. It was about getting more people into the arena for the games. With the smaller ice, over the course of the Olympics, like 35,000 more people will get to go to a game than if the larger ice was used.

    And I have to say it's being interesting, IIHF rules on NHL ice. I hope this isn't the last time we see this!

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    Ha ha ha ha ha!! Women's hockey is just pathetic. Canada 5-0 Sweden after the first period. OMG, this is so EXCITING!!! OMG, omg who will win???

    Can anybody remind me which place Sweden finsihed in Torino? At the last place? I don't remember. Looooool!!! What a great event when the silver medallist got dominated!!!

    Why not skip this pathetic tournament and just play the gold medal game between Canada and USA??? This is waste of money and time!!

    Sad just sad!! I want bandy and floorball over this crap.
    well, this Forum is open for all, but I do not understand your point realy. Why you write any message here (00.31am), when you've a problem with Womens Ice Hockey? In my opinion you're only watching - and hoping, there is a big score - that you can here give your comment...

    So, let's hope, that the next CAN and USA games have again a lot of goals. I'm wondering, if you can top all your comments....

    By the way, some scores from the 2009 Floorball Worldchampionship:

    05.12. 17:16 Sweden - Norway 17-3
    05.12. 20:02 Czech Republic - USA 12-3
    06.12. 16:30 USA - Sweden 1-28
    09.12. 16:30 USA - Norway 3-16
    09.12. 19:15 Sweden - Latvia 10-1

    or 2008:

    6.12 14:10 Sweden Italy 18:0
    8.12 14:10 Russia Sweden 1:18
    6.12 10:10 Germany Great Britain 25:5
    8.12 10:10 Singapore Germany 3:18
    Cheers, Franco

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaRiaHungaria View Post
    You're trying too hard, and failing for all that.

    It wasn't about not wanting to spend the money. It was about getting more people into the arena for the games. With the smaller ice, over the course of the Olympics, like 35,000 more people will get to go to a game than if the larger ice was used.

    And I have to say it's being interesting, IIHF rules on NHL ice. I hope this isn't the last time we see this!
    35 000 more people will go to the a game than if the larger ice was used?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????? WOW!


    Look at this link: http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2...ore?gameId=839
    The attendance between Canada and Norway seems to have 16,652. What do the the hockey in NA has as attendance if they wanted 35,000 more people? None?

  45. #145
    IHF Member Shardik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    So to discuss= trolling now?? Wooow, this is really a nice forum when you can't discuss.
    Trolling is when you don't regard the oppositions opinions and arguments and instead just repeat your own that have already been debunked several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMaul View Post
    35 000 more people will go to the a game than if the larger ice was used?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????? WOW!


    Look at this link: http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2...ore?gameId=839
    The attendance between Canada and Norway seems to have 16,652. What do the the hockey in NA has as attendance if they wanted 35,000 more people? None?
    This is a good example. Had you read the original message with thought you would have understood that the 35,000 addition was meant for the entire tournament. With 30 games in the men's tourney and another 16 in the women's tournament it means that the small rink added about 800-1,000 seats to the capacity of the rink.
    "Lord Baelish, what you suggest is treason."
    "Only if we lose."

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  46. #146
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Actually, Darth, you have been given every opportunity to express your opinion here - which you have done, over and over and over and over again.

    You are free to express your opinions 100 times in a row if you want, as long as you stay within our forum rules.

    Fellow members are free to respond to your opinions or to ignore them if they wish.

    Frankly, I disagree with you for the reasons I stated, and as very capably stated by some of my fellow forum members, so I don't see the need to argue any further with you myself.

    If others choose to, that's fine.

    If you want to whine and cry about women's hockey for the next 300 posts, go for it, as long as you stay within the board rules.

    Personally, I find it a circular and uninteresting argument, but keep making it if you want.

    None of the moderators here are suppressing your right to state your opinion if you keep it within the rules.

  47. #147
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    I absolutely believe this is a valid question. For 20 years Canada & the USA have dominated Womens hockey. The Olympics has always been about a variety of countries being competitive in a sport. Clearly more nations are competing but still none can compete with the top two. Sweden & Finland do not have a chance at Gold. A miracle could happen and they could beat one team BUT never both. Not now anyway. And we've been waiting for 20 years for this to change. The women's tournament is an automatic medal for Canada & the USA. Is this right? Is 20 years long enough to wait for the competition to grow?

  48. #148
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Well, as this thread has shown, it's like that in many other Olympic sports as well, where only 2-4 nations, depending on the sport, have a real shot. It's the nature of the beast in sports.

    Using Darth's logic, we really shouldn't have Summer or Winter Olympics at all, because every sport has a few giants and a bunch of minnows, with very few exceptions.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    I absolutely believe this is a valid question. For 20 years Canada & the USA have dominated Womens hockey. The Olympics has always been about a variety of countries being competitive in a sport. Clearly more nations are competing but still none can compete with the top two. Sweden & Finland do not have a chance at Gold. A miracle could happen and they could beat one team BUT never both. Not now anyway. And we've been waiting for 20 years for this to change. The women's tournament is an automatic medal for Canada & the USA. Is this right? Is 20 years long enough to wait for the competition to grow?
    what about men's hockey 1920-1992? only 3 nations have won 2 gold medals or more. Was 72 years didn't really bothered you?

  50. #150
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    How the world's women can catch Canada
    http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centr...n+catch+canada

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