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Thread: Croatian men's senior national team

  1. #101
    IHF Member Snapshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plissken View Post
    Missed promotion by a hair last season.Borna Rendulic should have a 50/50 chance of being there provided Lake Erie makes the playoffs,double edge sword in the case of cronucks taking away spots from homegrowners but croatia should have enough to promote and in the long term put the players in an environment of much better competition.i totally agree with what thd previous poster had to say on that.Croatias talent pool is increasing and catching up to slovenias program.
    Now you are either trolling or simply you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no increase in croatian talent pool...

  2. #102
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    According to to iihf website croatia jumped from 450 to 800 hockey's players in the country

    Which is at par

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by plissken View Post
    According to to iihf website croatia jumped from 450 to 800 hockey's players in the country

    Which is at par
    If you see how our teams (mladost, zagreb, medvescak) are playing in slovenian U12, U14, U16 leagues you will see terrible results. So who cares how many players we have if they suck.

  4. #104
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    I was reading yet another article (in Polish press) about the Croatian naturalization of North American born players who play for Medvescak.

    Link if anyone is interested: http://hokej.net/pl/news,artykul,13,...ralizacji.html

    I was just curious how this made Croatian born hockey fans feel? Seems your national team is becoming only made up of these naturalized players from elsewhere. To me it seems it would harm the development of youth players playing domestically, but on the other hand Croatia just had their first Croatian born player score a point in the NHL. The article I linked gently compares Croatian hockey as becoming the Qatar of handball. If you're not aware, recently in the team handball world championships Qatar, host of the tourney, fielded a team of all naturalized players from mostly Europe and won silver.

    Just curious on Croatian hockey fans opinion about this.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    I was reading yet another article (in Polish press) about the Croatian naturalization of North American born players who play for Medvescak.

    Link if anyone is interested: http://hokej.net/pl/news,artykul,13,...ralizacji.html

    I was just curious how this made Croatian born hockey fans feel? Seems your national team is becoming only made up of these naturalized players from elsewhere. To me it seems it would harm the development of youth players playing domestically, but on the other hand Croatia just had their first Croatian born player score a point in the NHL. The article I linked gently compares Croatian hockey as becoming the Qatar of handball. If you're not aware, recently in the team handball world championships Qatar, host of the tourney, fielded a team of all naturalized players from mostly Europe and won silver.

    Just curious on Croatian hockey fans opinion about this.
    I am all for players with Croatian roots playing for NT. Blood is not water and if they have desire to play for their origin country they must be welcome.

    I am all against players that doesn't have any connection to play for Croatia. I can live with one exception like it was Brumercik or Letang, but what are "federation" alongside with Medvescak trying to do is simply BS. They already announced, between the lines of course, that they will do whatever it takes to get qualified for 2018. Olympics. I hope with all my heart that they will fail in their plans.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    that they will do whatever it takes to get qualified for 2018. Olympics. .
    And that means almost every foregin player on Medvescak roster will get passport...ugly

  7. #107
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    I am all for players with Croatian roots playing for NT. Blood is not water and if they have desire to play for their origin country they must be welcome. .
    This is where Croatia has a very unique and large advantage over other hockey federations. I say this because there is a KHL team in Croatia, which is by far the most "hockey obscure" country to have a team playing in one of the best if not the best leagues in the world. This obviously attracts highly talented players which may or may not have Croatian roots from North America where they were born, learned the game, and attained the skills to play at such a high level, a level which I think we can agree would have never been attained playing in Croatia.

    I too agree with your statement which I quoted, however this should be applied across the board by the IIHF so it's fair for everyone, and there isn't this shady back-door way in which Croatia attracts foreign born and developed players to play for their national team.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    This is where Croatia has a very unique and large advantage over other hockey federations. I say this because there is a KHL team in Croatia, which is by far the most "hockey obscure" country to have a team playing in one of the best if not the best leagues in the world. This obviously attracts highly talented players which may or may not have Croatian roots from North America where they were born, learned the game, and attained the skills to play at such a high level, a level which I think we can agree would have never been attained playing in Croatia.

    I too agree with your statement which I quoted, however this should be applied across the board by the IIHF so it's fair for everyone, and there isn't this shady back-door way in which Croatia attracts foreign born and developed players to play for their national team.
    .....every nation should be allowed to field a "national" team of naturalized Canadians?
    ...sounds like the end of international hockey, and the beginning of Canadian hockey.
    BAD IDEA.

  9. #109
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    Croatian hockey fans are divided on the issue. Most of those who are connected in some way to the Croatian hockey (players, former players, youth players, relatives of players, coaches) see this as a death certificate to the Croatian hockey. They point out to the bad examples of countries who relied on imported players at the expense of the home grown ones.

    However, there are many fans whose only connection to hockey is Medveščak's professional team that played in EBEL and KHL and who want to see the "bears" entertaining them in red and white Croatian jerseys. They would cheer for occassional Croat in the team, but would not care at all about the impact on Croatian players.

    Naturally, the people who run Medveščak run the Federation as well and it is in their personal as well as business interest to sell Croatian hockey team to the bigger market. With the support of media and social networks they will advertise Croatia in the Olympic Games as some sort of "success of the Croatian hockey" while at the same time label the opposition as "petty nationalists" who are mostly interested in watching their brothers and sons playing for the national team in Division IIB. In addition, Croatian players would also be labeled as lazy, drinking bunch who is afraid of competitition from Canadian grown players.

    In my personal opinion, this is a recipe for disaster, but unfortunately, it seems that IIHF also gave up the struggle against naturalisations by relaxing the limits. I guess, in fifty years, there are going to be no more national teams nor World championships nor Olympics. Apparently, they are bad for business.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post

    However, there are many fans whose only connection to hockey is Medveščak's professional team that played in EBEL and KHL and who want to see the "bears" entertaining them in red and white Croatian jerseys. They would cheer for occassional Croat in the team, but would not care at all about the impact on Croatian players.

    Naturally, the people who run Medveščak run the Federation as well and it is in their personal as well as business interest to sell Croatian hockey team to the bigger market. With the support of media and social networks they will advertise Croatia in the Olympic Games as some sort of "success of the Croatian hockey" while at the same time label the opposition as "petty nationalists" who are mostly interested in watching their brothers and sons playing for the national team in Division IIB. In addition, Croatian players would also be labeled as lazy, drinking bunch who is afraid of competitition from Canadian grown players.


    And the loudest ones are those, with rare exceptions who took pause between Gortan and EBEL, who didn't know that hockey exists in Croatia until 2009. and now suddenly they are smartest and whatever Gojanovic says and do it is sanctity.

  11. #111
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    .....every nation should be allowed to field a "national" team of naturalized Canadians?
    ...sounds like the end of international hockey, and the beginning of Canadian hockey.
    BAD IDEA.
    Please don't twist my words, I think you know what I mean.

    For players who were born outside of Canada or the US, or are eligible for a foreign passport based on their parents' immigration status should be able to play for their secondary country without having to play in that secondary countries' domestic league for two seasons as is the current IIHF rule.

    Croatia has the advantage of attracting highly skilled players to their country because they have a club playing in the KHL. I AGREE NA PLAYERS WHO HAVE CROATIAN ROOTS (NOT RANDOM CANADIANS) SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE TO PLAY FOR CROATIA IF THEY FEEL THAT WAY, AND IT'S MUCH EASIER FOR THEM TO DO SO PLAYING IN A KHL TEAM IN CROATIA.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    Please don't twist my words, I think you know what I mean.

    For players who were born outside of Canada or the US, or are eligible for a foreign passport based on their parents' immigration status should be able to play for their secondary country without having to play in that secondary countries' domestic league for two seasons as is the current IIHF rule.

    Croatia has the advantage of attracting highly skilled players to their country because they have a club playing in the KHL. I AGREE NA PLAYERS WHO HAVE CROATIAN ROOTS (NOT RANDOM CANADIANS) SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE TO PLAY FOR CROATIA IF THEY FEEL THAT WAY, AND IT'S MUCH EASIER FOR THEM TO DO SO PLAYING IN A KHL TEAM IN CROATIA.
    THIS is doomed to fail and produce absurd situations. Ethnic roots are 1) hard to trace and verfiy and 2) not necessarily unique (what about players with mutliple "national roots"?). Defining conditions that assign players a unique "root-nationality" are then necessarily arbitrary and bound to fail to do what they should achieve.

    The only sense national team competition really makes is letting players that were brought up resp. played sufficiently long within the hockey-"system" of a certain country compete against each other.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexKramer View Post
    THIS is doomed to fail and produce absurd situations. Ethnic roots are 1) hard to trace and verfiy and 2) not necessarily unique (what about players with mutliple "national roots"?). Defining conditions that assign players a unique "root-nationality" are then necessarily arbitrary and bound to fail to do what they should achieve.

    The only sense national team competition really makes is letting players that were brought up resp. played sufficiently long within the hockey-"system" of a certain country compete against each other.
    I could not disagree more. In no other major international sport is there this requirement to play in a domestic league for two years prior to representing a country where a player already possesses its citizenship or is eligible for one.
    I think the player himself should decide who to play for if he has duel citizenship or is eligible for it. This would help grow the game globally in less hockey friendly environments. The fact that a guy like Richard Park (born in S. Korea) cannot play for his birth country, or a guy like Wojtek Wolski (born in Poland) cannot play for his without playing in a league which will undoubtedly lower his skill level, is a shame and flaw in the system.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegiaNR1 View Post
    I could not disagree more. In no other major international sport is there this requirement to play in a domestic league for two years prior to representing a country where a player already possesses its citizenship or is eligible for one.
    I think the player himself should decide who to play for if he has duel citizenship or is eligible for it. This would help grow the game globally in less hockey friendly environments. The fact that a guy like Richard Park (born in S. Korea) cannot play for his birth country, or a guy like Wojtek Wolski (born in Poland) cannot play for his without playing in a league which will undoubtedly lower his skill level, is a shame and flaw in the system.
    My statement was with respect to the case of a player with a certain ancestry not holding the passport of the country in question in first place. Other than that, making players eligible for whatever country they hold a citizenship or are eligible to get one without requiring them to actually play there will typically not result in growing the grass root level of the sport (which is all that counts if you want sustainable develpment in the long run). In the more likely worse case it will even undermine such a development. The fact that the IIHF accounts for this is imho not a flaw but a virtue. Otherwise we might have a Katari hockey team soon that has nothing to do with Katari hockey (which -if at all- barely exists).

    And for me, as I have said before, national teams are an anachronistic term for what in a globalized world should be a competition of systems or schools (based on countries). Wolski has as far as I know never ever been part of the Polish hockey system (entirely trained in Canada) so for me it makes absolutely sense that he can't represent Poland internationally. Same for Richard Park (and for any eventual Canadian Justin, Tyler, Drew etc. Hinterhuber or Obermaier kid with Austrian roots but no connections whatsoever to Austrian hockey ;-)

  15. #115
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    Guys like Wolski and Park are exceptions, but if you ask them, they'll probably identify themselves, first and foremost, as a Canadian and an American. At the same time, if you have players who are naturalized, then they couldn't play because they're born abroad (i.e. Kevin Dallman was most certainly not born in the KazakhSSR, nor his uncle Marty in Austria).

    But many "major international" sports do not have league competitions or team competitions as such. I doubt there are any professional biathlon club teams.

    Comparing ice hockey to other sports can be inherently flawed anyway. Handball and football don't require the same level of investment to produce an elite level national program - they still do but not the same as ice hockey. The then-IBAF, now-WBSC's acquiescence to Major League Baseball has turned their top competition into a fraud. For example, in their last tournament, Spain had only one-Spanish born player and all other European sides included guys that had never stepped foot, nor carried passports, in that nation. I will say that FIBA has gone the clever route in all of this for just one rule - they have a limit of one naturalized player per national team - so you can have them come in your league but you still need to produce your own complete team of elite players.

    I live in China but haven't played here, my roots are exclusively European, and I only carry an American passport. Nevermind my lack of talent, I have no right to be considered for China's national team in any sport (though currently I qualify for both baseball and cricket).
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trim View Post
    Guys like Wolski and Park are exceptions, but if you ask them, they'll probably identify themselves, first and foremost, as a Canadian and an American.
    Don't be so sure that Wolski will identify himself as a Canadian instead of as a Polish.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerusz View Post
    Don't be so sure that Wolski will identify himself as a Canadian instead of as a Polish.
    Fair, though if he really wanted to play for Poland, he would have signed there, not Nizhniy Novgorod. Meanwhile, Hari had to sign in Hungary to 'gain' the right to play for Hungary due to his Swedish passport.
    Bringing ice hockey to Northwest China!

    I'm the hole formerly known as KazakhEagles

  18. #118
    IHF Member LegiaNR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trim View Post
    Fair, though if he really wanted to play for Poland, he would have signed there, not Nizhniy Novgorod. Meanwhile, Hari had to sign in Hungary to 'gain' the right to play for Hungary due to his Swedish passport.
    Not to get too far off topic here, but Wolski did play in Sanok during the NHL lockout. Unfortunately after that Sanok could not compete with the type of salary and skill level a KHL team was proposing to him, and Wolski still being in the prime of his career opted to go where earnings and level of play were higher, you cannot blame him for that.

    He has stated he would return to play in the Polish league at a chance to play for the NT one day.

  19. #119
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    Hello. Need some information about croatian senior team and preparation for 1B tournament. Any help is welcome!
    I`m trying to fill this kind of page. http://virusputnik.ee/2015-03-11-21-26-04.html

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg A View Post
    Hello. Need some information about croatian senior team and preparation for 1B tournament. Any help is welcome!
    I`m trying to fill this kind of page. http://virusputnik.ee/2015-03-11-21-26-04.html
    On 7th april Croatia will play against Slovenia in Zagreb

  21. #121
    IHF Member Oleg A's Avatar
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    Super! Any info when trainig camp starting ?
    Only 1 pre tournament game?
    Prelimanary roster ?

  22. #122
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    Training camp is likely to start as soon as Croatian Championship ends, likely on Friday 13th. So, I expect for training camp to start on Monday 16th. As soon as we get the data from our association, we'll post it here.

    In the meatime, how about posting the Estonian U18 entry list?

  23. #123
    IHF Member Oleg A's Avatar
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    Here it is. It`s quite long Long list. http://virusputnik.ee/u18.html
    Those players are invited to trainig camp.

  24. #124
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  25. #125
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    It's not a complete list. Foreign players are not listed. Apparently, they don't need to practice with "the natives".

  26. #126
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    Does anyone know something about Luka Markovic? He played 2013-2014 a few games in the German Oberliga, but I couldnt find anything in the net about him this season...

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murach86 View Post
    Does anyone know something about Luka Markovic? He played 2013-2014 a few games in the German Oberliga, but I couldnt find anything in the net about him this season...
    Afaik he played some "college" league in SVK ?!?

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    Afaik he played some "college" league in SVK ?!?
    European University Hockey League EUHL

    http://www.euhl.eu/

    Luka Markovic, Trencin Gladiators

  29. #129
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    So how does the 2017 edition look like this time with a in form Borna Rendulic playing?

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by plissken View Post
    So how does the 2017 edition look like this time with a in form Borna Rendulic playing?
    If everybody shows up, it should look like this :

    GK : Rosandic (as starter), Tomljenovic

    DF : Katic, Sertich, Ljubić, Vedlin, Tadic, Smolec, Jačmenjak, Šilović

    FW : Glumac, Perkovich, Zanoški, Blagus, Rendulić, Kanaet, Jarčov, Miličić, Janković, Vukoja, Šakić, Mirić.

  31. #131
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    Croatia playing Great Britain in a few hours

    Post any live stream here

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