View Poll Results: Who will win between Canada and Russia?

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  • Canada (F4) will win

    6 20.69%
  • Russia (E1) will win

    23 79.31%
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Thread: QF: Russia - Canada game thread

  1. #51
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    guy,

    Who cares about Stanley Cup play-off? NHL can interrupt play-off, players can go to WC and after that play-off continues... Or NHL can schedule SC final to finish before staring WC. No problem.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    guy,

    Who cares about Stanley Cup play-off? NHL can interrupt play-off, players can go to WC and after that play-off continues... Or NHL can schedule SC final to finish before staring WC. No problem.
    Who cares about the Stanley Cup?
    LOL, buddy, who cares about the WC?
    Look, as far as we Canadians are concerned, we had our "worlds' in Feb.
    If Hockey Canada wasn't contractually obligated to send a team, I bet they wouldn't.
    Interrupt the Stanley Cup playoffs?
    That'll happen the day Lenin pops out of his tomb and walks away!
    Get it through your head Vorky...the WC doesn't mean crap to NA's.
    We send what we can and if we occasionally win, fine.
    Actually, if you look in recent years Canada has done pretty well.
    Three gold and three silver since 2003...better than Russia, actually.
    The Stanley Cup is the most important thing on this side of the pond and the NHL is
    not going to turn that upside down to acomodate the IIHF.

  3. #53
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    'Who cares about the Stanley Cup?'
    Not many people in Russia looks NHL, but all look the World championship and Olympic games.
    Stanley Cup is broadcast only on the special paid channel, whereas KHL on the free.
    Personally I do not look neither KHL nor NHL. Also I do not look the youth World championships in which so many Canadians are interested. And much my friends also prefer first national team matches without being interested in club career of players .
    Also when the national team of Canada wins all newspapers write that Russia does not have chances because in Russian team half of players from KHL, whereas at Canadians all from NHL. Canada has lost and mass-media write that at Russian team 14 players of an Olympic team and all "commentators" place emphasis on this fact. Nobody speaks about that fact: the Canadian national team has lost, though has been presented only by players of "the strongest league of the world" unlike Russia.
    I will repeat that we have simply too different views on importance of matches. For the majority of Russians matches of a national team it is much more important than any national leagues. For this reason Ovechkin goes on the World championship and Crosby is not. Fans would not forgive it to Ovy.

  4. #54
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avs View Post
    I will repeat that we have simply too different views on importance of matches. For the majority of Russians matches of a national team it is much more important than any national leagues. For this reason Ovechkin goes on the World championship and Crosby is not. Fans would not forgive it to Ovy.
    I think that right there explains this entire discussion. Well said.

    Great first post. And welcome to our forums! I hope you'll stick around during the rest of the year, and maybe you'll gain a little more appreciation for the club side of the hockey season. I know when I started here the Worlds meant nothing to me, now I'll watch World Championship games before NHL playoffs... There's always lots to learn on this board (I'm still learning something new here every single day)

  5. #55
    IHF Member Spitfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    I think that right there explains this entire discussion. Well said.

    Great first post. And welcome to our forums! I hope you'll stick around during the rest of the year, and maybe you'll gain a little more appreciation for the club side of the hockey season. I know when I started here the Worlds meant nothing to me, now I'll watch World Championship games before NHL playoffs... There's always lots to learn on this board (I'm still learning something new here every single day)

    This board comparing to hf boards is like comparing F-117 with Yak -1 :)
    2011/2012. - 50th Anniversary of KHL Medveščak Zagreb !

  6. #56
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    That'll happen the day Lenin pops out of his tomb and walks away!
    You have forgotten to joke about KGB, vodka, bears and a balalaika =). Watch the Hollywood films, there a lot of such crup.

  7. #57
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouellette View Post
    This board comparing to hf boards is like comparing F-117 with Yak -1 :)
    As someone who's spent some time in the armed forces, I love the comparison.

    For those who haven't had that experience, let's say rather:
    It's like comparing a Ferrari F50 to a Ford Pinto.

  8. #58
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Heatleysucks

    As "avs" wrote "I will repeat that we have simply too different views on importance of matches. For the majority of Russians matches of a national team it is much more important than any national leagues"

    Europeans don´t care about SC, they want to see best players at WC.

    Sorry but, It is stupid to use words "Canada sent best availeble players", It is Canada´s problem that SC is playing. You can interrupt it. No problem from my point of view. Look, EHT is played during season, KHL interupted season. No problem. Why don´t NHL so the same? My question. Guys, I know about new rule of KHL and I don´t like it

  9. #59
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    The NHL won't do the same because they have no links whatsoever to any national federation or the IIHF. They do what they want because they have nobody to excercise control over them except themselves.

    They don't interrupt their season or playoffs because they will lose money by doing so. Period.

  10. #60
    IHF Member Pršljen's Avatar
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    NHL doesn't care about WC and that won't change in the near future.
    Hokej u Hrvatskoj ima svijetlu budućnost SAMO AKO mjerodavni ljudi rade svoj posao kako treba - Pršljen
    Hockey in Croatia has a bright future ONLY IF relevant people do their job right - Pršljen

  11. #61
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pršljen View Post
    NHL doesn't care about WC and that won't change in the near future.
    so sad.

    Steigs I know it and I dislike it, but respect

  12. #62
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    "Great first post. And welcome to our forums"
    Thank you. It is really international board, therefore it very interesting.
    "This board comparing to hf boards is like comparing F-117 with Yak -1"
    I not many know about the aircraft technician, but I am sure that this board not so bad as a yak 1 =). Simply it is really out-of-date plane on which my grandfathers were at war

  13. #63
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    so sad.

    Steigs I know it and I dislike it, but respect
    I don't like it that much either. I wouldn't mind if the NHL season were shorter to finish at the same time as the rest of the world.
    Problem for the NHL is that they're the smaller of the major sports in North America, and if they have to compete head-to-head with other sports, they'll lost a lot of income. Most of their income is from viewers and ticket sales, they rely much less on sponsorship.
    If the NHL playoffs were earlier, they'd have to compete with the NCAA basketball tournament, and that would hurt a lot of teams when it mattered most. The NHL just can't afford that with the current amount of money they pay into player salaries.

    It's really just a fact of life at this point in time. I enjoy it a bit more though, because we get to see the smaller nations have better chances of doing well when the Big 7 are missing some of their top players (look at Denmark and Germany this year, for example).
    It's not a perfect way of doing things, but there is at least a few positive aspects to the top nations not having all their best players.

  14. #64
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Steigs

    thank for explenations.
    Maybe WC is often... I understand NHL as a organisation which does not want to communicate with world (IIHF, KHL). Look at Bettman statemants... it is off topic

  15. #65
    IHF Member Spitfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avs View Post
    "Great first post. And welcome to our forums"
    Thank you. It is really international board, therefore it very interesting.
    "This board comparing to hf boards is like comparing F-117 with Yak -1"
    I not many know about the aircraft technician, but I am sure that this board not so bad as a yak 1 =). Simply it is really out-of-date plane on which my grandfathers were at war
    I mean it for HF boards, not this one ;)
    2011/2012. - 50th Anniversary of KHL Medveščak Zagreb !

  16. #66
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    It is not necessary to change anything. I consider that the Olympic Games should remain the main hockey competition! The football's World championship's is spent one time in 4 years, Olympic Games too. Also the main hockey event should be spent one time in 4 years. It is possible simply made the best team from those players which can to play. The player failed in national league (not important NHL/KHL) should want to help the national team. It is main task of IIHF as the player arrived on the World championship should not feel that participates in a cup of losers. "Cup of One more chance". The organisation, the advertising, the increased prize-winning... It should help. If it can't to be, why need this IHHF? and for what to its employees money pays?

  17. #67
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    "I mean it for HF boards, not this one ;)"
    Ok! =)

  18. #68
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    For a start, no Canadian or American hockey fans will ever place anything over the Stanley Cup playoffs - not even the Olympics.

    I absolutely LOVE the Olympics and the IIHF World Championships (unlike many North Americans), but even I would NEVER place either one of them over the Stanley Cup in importance - never.

    The Stanley Cup is the symbol of professional hockey supremacy. Everything else is secondary in importance, even the Olympics.

    I'd trade 100 USA Olympic gold medals or 1 million USA IIHF gold medals for one more New York Rangers Stanley Cup victory, and I'm one of the very few North Americans I've ever met who actually likes and cares about the IIHF Worlds.

    As for the IIHF Worlds, North American hockey fans (except for the tiny minority like me) don't care about it at all because it's not a best vs. best tournament - it's viewed as a minor league type event, with NHL'ers participating only if their teams failed to make the playoffs, or got knocked out in the first two rounds, and only then if they feel like going. It's viewed as a consolation tournament for NHL players to go, give a half hearted effort, and beat up on some non-NHL players.

    The one exception is Russia - the Russian players always seem to care enough about their national team to go and play if they are available after their NHL teams are no longer competing for the Stanley Cup. That's why Russia always has a really strong team at this event. But North Americans shrug their shoulders if Russia wins this event - it's viewed as, "OK, you come with an A- strength team and beat up on the other big nations who send B and C strength teams.....who cares?!" North Americans can rightly point to best vs. best events and say that Canada is stronger than Russia at this point in time, and the so is the USA.

    I'm not saying, of course, that the IIHF Worlds truly are a "minor league" or "consolation" tournament, but that is how they are viewed by the overwhelming majority of the North American hockey fans that even know the tournament exists at all.

    This tournament gets ZERO attention in the American media. No TV coverage. No radio coverage. No newspaper coverage........not even a line or two mentioning the scores or that the event is even taking place. NOTHING. You have to go on to the internet to find mention of it, and even on North American hockey specific pages, it's buried to the point that you have to search to find it.

    Sad, but true.

    The only time North Americans care about the national teams is during the Olympics, and Canadians care about the World Juniors (about 0.000000001% of Americans care about the World Juniors; me being one of them). But at least the Olympics and the World Jrs. are best vs. best events.

    As long as the IIHF plays this event while the Stanley Cup playoffs are happening, it will never be a best vs. best event. They should play it in June.

  19. #69
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    For a start, no Canadian or American hockey fans will ever place anything over the Stanley Cup playoffs - not even the Olympics.

    I absolutely LOVE the Olympics and the IIHF World Championships (unlike many North Americans), but even I would NEVER place either one of them over the Stanley Cup in importance - never.

    The Stanley Cup is the symbol of professional hockey supremacy. Everything else is secondary in importance, even the Olympics.

    I'd trade 100 USA Olympic gold medals or 1 million USA IIHF gold medals for one more New York Rangers Stanley Cup victory, and I'm one of the very few North Americans I've ever met who actually likes and cares about the IIHF Worlds.

    As for the IIHF Worlds, North American hockey fans (except for the tiny minority like me) don't care about it at all because it's not a best vs. best tournament - it's viewed as a minor league type event, with NHL'ers participating only if their teams failed to make the playoffs, or got knocked out in the first two rounds, and only then if they feel like going. It's viewed as a consolation tournament for NHL players to go, give a half hearted effort, and beat up on some non-NHL players.

    The one exception is Russia - the Russian players always seem to care enough about their national team to go and play if they are available after their NHL teams are no longer competing for the Stanley Cup. That's why Russia always has a really strong team at this event. But North Americans shrug their shoulders if Russia wins this event - it's viewed as, "OK, you come with an A- strength team and beat up on the other big nations who send B and C strength teams.....who cares?!" North Americans can rightly point to best vs. best events and say that Canada is stronger than Russia at this point in time, and the so is the USA.

    I'm not saying, of course, that the IIHF Worlds truly are a "minor league" or "consolation" tournament, but that is how they are viewed by the overwhelming majority of the North American hockey fans that even know the tournament exists at all.

    This tournament gets ZERO attention in the American media. No TV coverage. No radio coverage. No newspaper coverage........not even a line or two mentioning the scores or that the event is even taking place. NOTHING. You have to go on to the internet to find mention of it, and even on North American hockey specific pages, it's buried to the point that you have to search to find it.

    Sad, but true.

    The only time North Americans care about the national teams is during the Olympics, and Canadians care about the World Juniors (about 0.000000001% of Americans care about the World Juniors; me being one of them). But at least the Olympics and the World Jrs. are best vs. best events.

    As long as the IIHF plays this event while the Stanley Cup playoffs are happening, it will never be a best vs. best event. They should play it in June.
    uderstand, but...They should play it in June. or SC finale takes place in early April. Why should IIHF do what NHL wants? Guy, I understand Americans, but we have to find compromise, as I wrote above, NHL seems to act selfishly- "NHL is important, rest of world is not important for us" I don´t like it. We see it in transfer argreements (like "Yesterday the KHL and the NHL signed a Memorandum of Understanding. It is not a transfer agreement and, according to Gary Bettman, there may not be an agreement for some time. Moreover, there may not be an agreement at all." http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,242843 ) but it is off topic

  20. #70
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    Again, the NHL will never have the playoffs take place in March & April - to do so would shorten the regular season, and put the playoffs in direct competition with the NCAA basketball tournament (which is followed with much more enthusiasm than the NHL) - both of which would be financial suicide for the NHL.

  21. #71
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Again, the NHL will never have the playoffs take place in March & April
    Therefore I wrote that NHL is selfish. It is ok, but I dislike it. I don´t want to mention transfer agreement (200 000 USD for drafted player), because someone wrote that NHL does not have money LOL

  22. #72
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    At least the tournament is followed in Canada to some degree.
    Scores are reported in sportscasts (all of them), and all of Canada's games plus both semifinal games and the gold and bronze matches are televised on TSN. I'm watching the Russia-Germany game right now.

  23. #73
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    Of course Olympiq are a bigger event, but still World Championship is still fun to watch, i prefer that in front of watching stanley cup-teams i dont like.

    The players you see in World Championship are players that will come to NHL in a near future, and there are several of those players that will be stars.

    Its always fun to see what players that will come and play for its team, when tournament have started its always bigger and funnier than you expected.

    Why USA dont care is because they dont have that numbers of competive hockeyplayers. Because in the end they dont have enough good players. Canada in other hand have all the good players, and even if someone says no there always another good player to get.

    Russians should be proud of their starplayers, WC are big for the countries that have a chance to reach bronze and USA is not one of those.

    Germany, Denmark etc will in some years be a better hockey country than USA.
    You just have the biggest part of the league, but without all the canadian, european players your league would been a joke.

  24. #74
    IHF Staff Marc Brunengraber's Avatar
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    You're kidding, right?

    When the USA sends all of its best players to a tournament - such as the Olympics - it is a real threat to win gold.

    Despite Canada winning in overtime in the gold medal game, it is a fair argument to make that the Americans were the best team at the Olympics......the Americans beat Canada in regulation in their preliminary round game.

    As for this World Championship, the USA didn't send anything better than a "C" grade team.

    There are plenty of players who could have made a stronger roster.

    The fact that they didn't come is certainly the USA's problem and not the fault of the other teams, but it's ludicrous to suggest that the USA does not have world class hockey players.

    To suggest that they are going to fall out of the top seven hockey powers is ridiculous.

  25. #75
    IHF Member kun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    Despite Canada winning in overtime in the gold medal game, it is a fair argument to make that the Americans were the best team at the Olympics......the Americans beat Canada in regulation in their preliminary round game.
    No, The best one is the winner. With that type of logic, then you can say Finland was the best in Turrin and Canada wasn't the best in 2002. The Champion is the best. Simple.

    You guys gave off a good fight, but don't forget we had a 2-0 lead, and could have put it away 3-1, 4-1 with a few pings off the post and then 5-1 on a break away with Crosby. We also out shot and out chanced you in a 5-3 game, where you got 2 softies in, and another open net goal. So really, I'm not sure what your argument is. Hockey games are just like that, but winner takes all.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    You're kidding, right?

    When the USA sends all of its best players to a tournament - such as the Olympics - it is a real threat to win gold.

    Despite Canada winning in overtime in the gold medal game, it is a fair argument to make that the Americans were the best team at the Olympics......the Americans beat Canada in regulation in their preliminary round game.

    As for this World Championship, the USA didn't send anything better than a "C" grade team.

    There are plenty of players who could have made a stronger roster.

    The fact that they didn't come is certainly the USA's problem and not the fault of the other teams, but it's ludicrous to suggest that the USA does not have world class hockey players.

    To suggest that they are going to fall out of the top seven hockey powers is ridiculous.

    What i meant was that USA have a very good team if everyone said yes "the olympic team". But like you say a C grade team is not a great USA team. Sweden and Czechs also hade C Grade team but still they are strong enough to play for medals. That because this countries have so many talent and good players to choice from that it doesnt matter if theres many no from NHL players.

    USA had to play to not be degraded VS teams like italy and kazakstan. Thats enough proof that USA are depending on their best player.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Brunengraber View Post
    For a start, no Canadian or American hockey fans will ever place anything over the Stanley Cup playoffs - not even the Olympics.

    I absolutely LOVE the Olympics and the IIHF World Championships (unlike many North Americans), but even I would NEVER place either one of them over the Stanley Cup in importance - never.

    The Stanley Cup is the symbol of professional hockey supremacy. Everything else is secondary in importance, even the Olympics.

    I'd trade 100 USA Olympic gold medals or 1 million USA IIHF gold medals for one more New York Rangers Stanley Cup victory, and I'm one of the very few North Americans I've ever met who actually likes and cares about the IIHF Worlds.

    As for the IIHF Worlds, North American hockey fans (except for the tiny minority like me) don't care about it at all because it's not a best vs. best tournament - it's viewed as a minor league type event, with NHL'ers participating only if their teams failed to make the playoffs, or got knocked out in the first two rounds, and only then if they feel like going. It's viewed as a consolation tournament for NHL players to go, give a half hearted effort, and beat up on some non-NHL players.

    The one exception is Russia - the Russian players always seem to care enough about their national team to go and play if they are available after their NHL teams are no longer competing for the Stanley Cup. That's why Russia always has a really strong team at this event. But North Americans shrug their shoulders if Russia wins this event - it's viewed as, "OK, you come with an A- strength team and beat up on the other big nations who send B and C strength teams.....who cares?!" North Americans can rightly point to best vs. best events and say that Canada is stronger than Russia at this point in time, and the so is the USA.

    I'm not saying, of course, that the IIHF Worlds truly are a "minor league" or "consolation" tournament, but that is how they are viewed by the overwhelming majority of the North American hockey fans that even know the tournament exists at all.

    This tournament gets ZERO attention in the American media. No TV coverage. No radio coverage. No newspaper coverage........not even a line or two mentioning the scores or that the event is even taking place. NOTHING. You have to go on to the internet to find mention of it, and even on North American hockey specific pages, it's buried to the point that you have to search to find it.

    Sad, but true.

    The only time North Americans care about the national teams is during the Olympics, and Canadians care about the World Juniors (about 0.000000001% of Americans care about the World Juniors; me being one of them). But at least the Olympics and the World Jrs. are best vs. best events.

    As long as the IIHF plays this event while the Stanley Cup playoffs are happening, it will never be a best vs. best event. They should play it in June.
    Marc
    I must be the exception Canadian because to me, the Olympic games are way bigger then the Stanley Cup. I would not have traded Canada's gold in 02 or this year for any Leaf Stanley Cup win. Truthfully, I think there are some differences between Canadians and Americans in their feelings towards international hockey. I dont think you can paint all of of North America with the same brush

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