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Thread: Champions League back in action in 2011-12?

  1. #51
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    I am wondering what this means for the European Trophy and how the involved clubs now react on the CHL proposal? If the CHL comes in the new form, then the ET is clearly degraded to a (close to meaningless) pre-season tournament. But if they reject it, they will offend the IIHF, which is also not in their sense, as any further developement and maybe one day the European league need support from the international federation.

  2. #52
    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can't help but think that Hockey Europe (the European Trophy gang) will look for any possible reason to torpedo the Champions League rebirth. That will obviously include the slightest indication that the KHL would reject participation IMO.
    I'm not sure that they'd reject it immediately, but I'm sure that they'll use any excuse they possibly can to shut it down as soon as possible.
    I find it quite unfortunate that we're getting into this battle of wills with a third side now, but the IIHF really does seem to be losing influence, and will have to work hard to get it back.

  3. #53
    IHF Member Nightmare's Avatar
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    The IIHF is lucky to still have the little influence it has after the many years of doing absolutely nothing. It did nothing to protect european clubs over the years when they did need that help against the invading NHL, then it started ass-kissing the Medvedev(I'm a fan but that is the truth), why should Hockey Europe start to care about the will of the IIHF now?

    P.S.:Don't get me wrong, I just loved the first season of CHL, it was great and I'd like to see that again, but this seems like re-warmed soup to me. If the NHL hadn't meddled in the first place the competition(with much bigger funds) would be in it's 3rd season by now and it's perspectives would have been a lot different.
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  4. #54
    IHF Member ottsens71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The IIHF is lucky to still have the little influence it has after the many years of doing absolutely nothing. It did nothing to protect european clubs over the years when they did need that help against the invading NHL, then it started ass-kissing the Medvedev(I'm a fan but that is the truth), why should Hockey Europe start to care about the will of the IIHF now?

    P.S.:Don't get me wrong, I just loved the first season of CHL, it was great and I'd like to see that again, but this seems like re-warmed soup to me. If the NHL hadn't meddled in the first place the competition(with much bigger funds) would be in it's 3rd season by now and it's perspectives would have been a lot different.
    Nightmare why do you always blame the NHL for anything and everything? Wasn't it Gazprom who decided to pull out of their commitment to sponsor the CHL? How in the hell is it the NHL's fault???

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottsens71 View Post
    Nightmare why do you always blame the NHL for anything and everything? Wasn't it Gazprom who decided to pull out of their commitment to sponsor the CHL? How in the hell is it the NHL's fault???
    As I know, yes Gazprom decided to pull out. As I know main reason was that NHL wanted to influence/govern CHL.

    I agree,NHL has no right to be involved in european hockey. If NHL wanted to european hockey, they would pay more money for players and would allow juniors to participate at WJC. All senior leagues in the world can do this, only NHL can not. And yes, I know NHL´s reasons.
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  6. #56
    IHF Member Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorky View Post
    As I know, yes Gazprom decided to pull out. As I know main reason was that NHL wanted to influence/govern CHL.

    I agree,NHL has no right to be involved in european hockey. If NHL wanted to european hockey, they would pay more money for players and would allow juniors to participate at WJC. All senior leagues in the world can do this, only NHL can not. And yes, I know NHL´s reasons.
    True, vorky, it's as you pointed it out. I did not explain myself earlier because i thought it was common knowledge, sorry.
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  7. #57
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    True, vorky, it's as you pointed it out. I did not explain myself earlier because i thought it was common knowledge, sorry.
    thx, i am with you with this point.

    I have to add my previous post

    IF NHL wanted to help european hockey etc

    I am neither anti-NHL nor pro-KHL fan. I just want clubs to pay adequate money for prospects. I dislike one-way transfer politics of NHL. Look at swedes teams they are so hurt by it. KHL is not better in this way, but IMHO KHL pays better for players.

    sorry for off topic
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    http://hokej.sport.cz/clanek/181641-...gu-mistru.html

    Czech clubs want a compensation from IIHF for the cancelled 2009-10 season of the CHL. Slavia Prague, Plzeň, Karlovy Vary and Pardubice want 200 000 Euro compensation and unless they get it these clubs will not participate in the 2011-12 season of the Champions Hockey League.

    Not sure if 200 000 Euro compensation for each of the clubs or in total and whether other Czech clubs besides these 4 won't participate unless these 4 get their compensation.

  9. #59
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJK_Principle View Post
    http://hokej.sport.cz/clanek/181641-...gu-mistru.html

    Czech clubs want a compensation from IIHF for the cancelled 2009-10 season of the CHL. Slavia Prague, Plzeň, Karlovy Vary and Pardubice want 200 000 Euro compensation and unless they get it these clubs will not participate in the 2011-12 season of the Champions Hockey League.

    Not sure if 200 000 Euro compensation for each of the clubs or in total and whether other Czech clubs besides these 4 won't participate unless these 4 get their compensation.
    in total 200 000 Euro and all czech teams wont participate unless etc
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  10. #60
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    http://www.hockeyfans.ch/news/meldung/28761

    The Swiss league says yes to the IIHF proposal, but is not satisfied with the prize money.
    The IIHF expects answers from the leagues and clubs tomorrow.

  11. #61
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    http://hockey.expressen.se/elitserie...ampions-league

    The Swedish Elitserien clubs will meet tomorrow to decide, but according to exrpessen, they will reject the proposal.

  12. #62
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    I really hope something can be worked out for the Champions League. I think it is a great idea for European hockey. I would also like to see it broadcasted on a North American network.

    That would get some $$$ for the teams.

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    who cares if Sweden rejects. Swedish teams never play seriously anyway

  14. #64
    IHF Member vorky's Avatar
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    I read that KHL rejected too. No way CHL to be reload
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    it' over...

    according to this article there will be no CHL since Swedish and Czeck Leagues said no..

    http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/...-Ende-23206299

    so CHL should definitely be dead, unless of course if an extended version of the European Hockey Trophy will be created. IIHF will not do any other tentative


  16. #66
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    European hockey doesn't need CHL or any tournament like that. What European hockey needs is a pan-European hockey league like NHL for North America. And by that I don't mean KHL or Swedes and Finns coming together- I mean involvent of all hockey Europe in it from Berlin to Prague, Stockholm, Moscow, Kazan etc.

    Hockey markets in Europe are rather small if compared to football or even basketball. Club tournaments like UEFA Champions League or ULEB Euroleague in basketball work because the sports are more popular and national markets can support big teams in their own leagues... while hockey Europe consists of either small (Finland) or poor (Russia) markets mostly...

    KHL is also not an answer, at least while it's 100% Russian league. Why should an Elitserien club, DEL club join KHL if there's better organization and profits in those leagues. KHL can think that it makes the level of European hockey higher (and it does) but 5000 seat arenas, 3$ ticket prices and no real tv deals work only in Russia where some rich people are used to wasting money.

    CHL can't bring KHL level hockey to Paris, Rome, London, maybe even Madrid because it's just a marginal hockey club tournament and KHL can't too because people leading it don't even want to know anything about running a hockey club like a business venture. If there were a serious Pan-European hockey league in the works it might be possible. I see no real reason why Paris or London couldn't support a KHL level/ medium budget team even if the locals don't go to to watch the games. There are thousands of people from hockey countries living there but they won't go to see former ECHL and AHLers with beer bellies (ok, I'm esaggerating but still) playing low level of hockey and fighting each other...

    I myself have a friend in London (not one, of course, but a Latvian friend) and he once went to an English league hockey game because he loves the sport. Unfortunately there's not much appeal in 1500 seat arenas and 3rd rate hockey...

    Local leagues are the problem... I understand it's easy for me to say that because Latvia has never had local league traditions, big rivalries between clubs here but... clubs in towns of 40 000 population is not "competing with NHL". Ok, maybe Europe doesn't want to compete with NHL but then- why are we always complaning about small compensations for players and lack of talent staying here? Czech league, Finnish league, Slovakian league, even Elitserien can't solve this problem alone... People will go where the bucks and level of play are and Swedish or Czech hockey market can't compete with North American hockey market... and KHL can compete only because of oil and gas money but that's not long-term thinking...

    And I agree- IIHF has done nothing to improve European hockey and it's high time some other organization stepped up and started to think about this problem. After all, basketball Euroleague, in my mind a successful project, is also managed by ULEB, not FIBA or FIBA Europe whose incompetence made ULEB to start doing somthing on their own.
    Last edited by rusher; 18-02-2011 at 16:11.

  17. #67
    IHF Member Bennison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusher View Post
    European hockey doesn't need CHL or any tournament like that. What European hockey needs is a pan-European hockey league like NHL for North America.
    This has been discussed before and I for one do not agree. A pan-European hockey league with teams in Paris and London? A pipe dream at best. No, I strongly believe that CHL with the right support could have been a strong player, if they had not folded the first time. The window of opportunity was gone after that. Some Swedish teams dream of increasing revenues in a European NHL look-alike, but I can't see it happening.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusher View Post
    European hockey doesn't need CHL or any tournament like that. What European hockey needs is a pan-European hockey league like NHL for North America. And by that I don't mean KHL or Swedes and Finns coming together- I mean involvent of all hockey Europe in it from Berlin to Prague, Stockholm, Moscow, Kazan etc.
    Very well written and good arguments. But I too have to disagree with you. Yes, I am outsider looking in, but I don't think a Pan-European league would work. The best option for European competition is a Champions League format, IMO. It is too bad that the IIHF messed up on this, but maybe you are right to suggest that new association is formed to start the Champions League like the Euro Basketball league.

    Also, I don't think the NHL should get involved in anyway.

  19. #69
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    IIHF has now officially "postponed" the CHL plans...
    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...postponed.html

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    IIHF has now officially "postponed" the CHL plans...
    http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...postponed.html
    as usual...
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  21. #71
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    Would have been great :'(

  22. #72
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    I would not want for football or basketball to serve as examples of what European hockey should look like. Champion's League in football is now a rich men club where even teams from football powerhouses like Germany or Italy can't compete with millioners running English or Spannish teams who swim in money and depths. I'll trade current Champions League for late Champion's Cup any time.

    European Basketball League did nothing to improve the level of play of European basketball, quite the contrary. What was once nice sport to watch, turned into a wrestling match between teams filled up with second rate Americans spiced with long shot three pointers. The best players still want to go to NBA, a Europe is has only leftovers. Top European players routinely avoid playing for their national squads except on the Olympics (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)

    I'd rather watch local or regional competitions between the teams with hockey tradition than Pan European Circus League where artificial teams will play as long as sponsor money allows then move to another city or even another country. The format of the inaugural Champions Hockey League was excellent and if it weren't for incompetence and greed of the people involved with running and sponsoring the League we would have a good competition between top European hockey teams without disrupting the existing system which is quite good in my opinion.

    Europe is not North America and should never try to immitate it because it is based on different tradition that works for decades.

  23. #73
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    Bosnia & Herzegovina

    IIHF has "to much" business. In football UEFA & FIFA are doing the job that in hockey only IIHF does. And even IIHF has a "big rival" with NHL.
    IIHF should first try to have a stable World championships and tournaments for lower divisions more often or more games in it. For ex. Division III participants aren´t able to go even to Division I in less then 5 years of a great run and great generation of players (most probably imports). If those nations play (especially in U18, U20 and even U16 ) more games within each others they could improve faster.
    Back at topic : CHL has problem that there are basically 8 leagues that has clubs for it (Czech, Slovak, DEL, Suisse, KHL, Sweden, Finnish and Danemark (or Salzburg from EBEL) and those leagues would suffer a great loss if the teams aren´t playing in home leagues. On other side, if there would be all the time same clubs (not the champions but the "strongest" or richest clubs from leagues, it will be like basketball, same clubs, and boring competition. If only the champions will play, then the domestic league will be more important then CHL and CHL games will be played with weaker squad if hard league match is in couple of days.

  24. #74
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    Not sure I agree with the post above.
    First, teams in DivIII can get to DivI in two years if they are able to win DivIII and DivII in consecutive years.
    As for the CHL, you're right that there are only a few truly top leagues. That being said, VEU Feldkirch managed to win the old European Hockey League back in the 90's so sometimes a good run can happen. Look at Zurich, nobody expected them to beat teams from the Czech Republic, Finland or Russia but they managed. Nobody expected them to beat the Blackhawks, but they dug deep and found a way.

    CHL, whether run by IIHF or Hockey Europe, would be a great thing SO LONG AS IT WAS ACTUALLY A CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. Or, alternatively, that it actually allowed promotion and relegation among its teams and their national competition, to make it more like a top division of the national competitions (while allowing players to play at a still higher level).
    I somehow doubt Hockey Europe would be willing to take their competition in that direction tough, which would be really too bad as they would I think lose a great marketing opportunity for themselves.

  25. #75
    IHF Member BillyCanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drax View Post
    Champion's League in football is now a rich men club where even teams from football powerhouses like Germany or Italy can't compete with millioners running English or Spannish teams who swim in money and depths. I'll trade current Champions League for late Champion's Cup any time.
    With the new Financial Fair Play Rules coming into effect soon, I hope that these new rules will help even out the playing field in the UEFA Champions League.

    With that said, I think that a Champions League is something that could help European hockey. But like Steigs said, a true Champions League. However, I don't think the KHL will join it. They want to do their own European league. It's too bad that the first Champions League left a bitter tasted with the clubs, I was really hoping it would come back.

  26. #76
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    Maybe a new thread speculating the return of CHL ought to be started, but I'll just post here for now. According to Kalervo Kummola, the president of the Finnish Hockey Association/IIHF Vice President, there are ongoing discussions to revive the CHL for next season. He says that the intention is to discuss it for the next 6 months and then hopefully it will be re-launched in the spring next year. The first games would take place in fall 2013.

    He also says that the previous time the attempt was too focused on money whereas time time the emphasis will be on the sport. The KHL is supposed to be incorporated as well.

    The news story by MTV3 (in Finnish).

    We'll see.....

  27. #77
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    Hockeysverige.se has an article on a possible reform of European Trophy into a CHL-format, for the 2014/15 season. According to the article this would include KHL teams and the games would be played interleaved with regular season games, not pre-season and during international breaks like today.

    The reason it won't start next season is due to the Olympics in Sochi already compressing the regular season schedule in European leagues.
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  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennison View Post
    Hockeysverige.se has an article on a possible reform of European Trophy into a CHL-format, for the 2014/15 season. According to the article this would include KHL teams and the games would be played interleaved with regular season games, not pre-season and during international breaks like today.

    The reason it won't start next season is due to the Olympics in Sochi already compressing the regular season schedule in European leagues.
    Can't see the reason for KHL clubs to join ET. KHL and ET are currently competing European hockey league projects. Top hockey clubs from 7 European countries participate in KHL and also Top clubs from 7 European contries participate in ET. Slovan due to several circumstances participates in both tournaments.
    Last edited by JankS; 05-12-2012 at 15:26.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by High5 View Post
    Maybe a new thread speculating the return of CHL ought to be started, but I'll just post here for now. According to Kalervo Kummola, the president of the Finnish Hockey Association/IIHF Vice President, there are ongoing discussions to revive the CHL for next season. He says that the intention is to discuss it for the next 6 months and then hopefully it will be re-launched in the spring next year. The first games would take place in fall 2013.

    He also says that the previous time the attempt was too focused on money whereas time time the emphasis will be on the sport. The KHL is supposed to be incorporated as well.

    The news story by MTV3 (in Finnish).

    We'll see.....
    Regarding renewal of CHL - this project recently was not supported by European clubs/leagues. What changed so dramatically during last months to enable support for renewal of CHL?

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